Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School Punishments

145 replies

Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 11:26

Hi all

My year 1 DS drew on a wall during class supervised by a cover teacher on the monday before half term. his punishment was to clean the wall and miss both breaks and lunchplay for the rest of the week. during these breaks he was to stand facing the wall in the playground.

i went mad when i found out! 1 - i was not informed, 2- i felt this was incredibly extreme punishment, 3- how did he get to draw so much in the first place?

Am i so unreasonable to feel that missing breaks and lunch play for a whole week is totally over the top? I know from my other half who is in the forces that facing the wall is a form of sensory deprivation used by the forces prior to interrogation! To do this for a whole week infornt of the whole school seems bullying to me

I am in the process of writing to the school Head, govenor and LEA and would like to see others opinons on this!

OP posts:
edam · 02/06/2009 20:47

Pointy - I'd agree with you IF the school had been reasonable about it. But given they made a huge drama out of something that wasn't even a crisis, dragging out a punishment over a whole week for a 5yo, fgs, I'd be looking very carefully at THEIR actions in return.

edam · 02/06/2009 20:48

The whole 'ooh, it's graffiti hysteria, for instance. What the hell is this place, Miss Soppy's Academy for milkfops?

LadyOfWaffle · 02/06/2009 20:52

This was on a Monday. He had to stand facing a wall for breaks, and lunch for the rest of the week? So 2 X 15 min breaks and 1/2 hour at lunch? So he stood possibly 5 hours facing a wall for "graffiti". I would be hopping mad!

SoupDragon · 02/06/2009 21:00

Personally I agree with those who say the length of the punishment is the problem, not the punishment itself. Should have been one day only.

Ritual humiliation??? Oh please. they didn't put him in the stocks to be pelted with rotten fruit. I remember having to stand against the wall at playtime for a set period of time in primary school. It was almost like a badge of honour which probably isn't the affect they were hoping for.

atworknotworking · 02/06/2009 21:01

Most schools have cctv in the classes now, I would like to see the work of art in progress if it was my DC as well as the events that led up to and after. Children of this age don't tend to draw / write on walls it's more of a toddler thing. I am a CM and sometimes the little ones miss the paper and pen / paint gets on the tables even then they say sorry and help to wipe it up, even though it's not their fault IYSWIM I would certainly not place restrictions on a child for this, however if a child was nearly 6 and deliberately drew on a wall I would ask them to help clean it off and probably not let them carry on with the activity, but I would not carry over a restriction for a week, often when mindees come to me after school they say that they got wrong or had to sit on the "thinking cushion" when asked why they genuinley don't know, sometimes I feel that teachers can go straight to the sanctions without properly talking and helping the child see why somethings just arn't acceptable. I would want to see the schools behaviour policy, have you had a recent look at the schools ofsted report they can be quite revealing with regard to behaviour, teaching skills, I would also have a talk with your childs usual teacher is this sort of thing usual, has it happened before? YANBU the punishment was inappropriate and I think badly handled by the staff.

SoupDragon · 02/06/2009 21:03

"Most schools have cctv in the classes now"

Most??

pointydog · 02/06/2009 21:07

I don't know of one school with cctv in teh clas rooms

paisleyleaf · 02/06/2009 21:19

Where are you from atworknotworking?
...I've not heard of a 'thinking cushion' either (that sounds nicer than timeout).

halia · 02/06/2009 21:52

atworknotowkring - I cna catergorically say its not just toddlers who draw on walls - I know several 4-6 yr olds who do it too (DS eing a proud member of the tribe)

I dont' know a single primary school with CTV and I've just moved from a large city (with failing schools) to a small rural community. The only CTV was in one spectacularly failing secondary on a very very dodgy estate and that was in hallways and lobby's not in classrooms!

piscesmoon · 02/06/2009 21:58

I don't know any schools with cctv-it sounds dreadful!
Cleaning the wall seems a natural consequence and very fair-I don't think you need anything further.

cazzybabs · 02/06/2009 22:11

I am afraid I agreee with Londonone ...

yes to being asked to clean the wall. A 5-6 year old knows not to draw on the wall - I teach year 1 ; I teach them to be responisble for their actions. What would you do if he drew on the wall at home? You can't be everywhere and teachers do not have eyes in the back on their head. IT would be perfectly possible for a child in my class to draw on a wall - how long would they need - about 1 minute, less than... they don't though I hasten to add! (or haven't yet)

  1. it is OK for him to stand to face a wall and have time out because otherwise other children would talk to him because they wouldn't know not too ... and why not in the playground...where else can he go. Teachers do need breaks and/or maybe his classroom teacher was on duty anyway so he couldn't have stood in the classroom.

However, a week is far too long - he will have forgotton what it is for

I wouldn't go in guns blazing to the school - you'll put people's backs up...all you have is your son's account... I would go in calmly and ask for the facts. Tell them you support them in their discipline; drawing on the wall is not on BUT that you feel the punishment did not fit the crime.

piscesmoon · 02/06/2009 22:20

I agree that I would go in calmly-it is never good to get a bad name with the all guns blazing bit.

ninah · 02/06/2009 22:27

interesting. at ds's school children are regularly 'put on the wall' during break/lunch as a punishment, though no mention of this is made in their behavioural policy.

treedelivery · 02/06/2009 23:50

OP has had the meeting with head today already. Head doesn't seem to have said much tbh.

ChippingIn · 03/06/2009 00:42

Cleaning it up - absolutely!

Standing facing a wall - no problem

ALL WEEK? No way. I'd be fine with both breaks and half of the lunch time that day - but that would be it, more than enough for drawing on the wall.

I would like to be told so that I could discuss/punish/withdraw treats etc as I saw fit as well... I think being worried about what will happen when your parents find out is healthy - thinking M&D will tell the teacher off for punishing me is not (not aimed at the OP by the way, I'd be seeing the HM about this as well as it's over the top).

LO when she was 3 (nursery, but run like a reception class) (deliberately) scribbled (a lot!) on one of the tables in the classroom (god alone knows what she was thinking as she knows better - honest she does!!), the teacher made her clean it off and I think she had to sit next to the TA for a little while, but that was it. The teacher didn't tell me, LO did when I went to pick her up. I didn't take her to the park as we had planned, we went straight home instead. Later on she asked if she could make her teacher a card...

Torture and humiliation - we are talking about facing a wall aren't we?? I think some reactions here are well over the top! It's just a way to stop them interacting with the other children and making a mockery of the punishment.

JodieO · 03/06/2009 00:51

Here's a "top tip" read more about psychology? As someone said earlier, they wouldn't allow that in a prison, let alone for 5 year olds. Faacing a wall in front of everyone else is humiliating and no amount of, "it's just for relection" or similar crap will change that. Who cares if you work in a school? Doesn't mean you, or the school for that matter, are correct in what they're doing.

I think you'll find that punishments such as those mentioned, are humiliating and really serve no purpose. Talking to a child and explaining the rights and wrongs and how it affects other people would clearly be a better option; much like writing lines is a waste of time too. A 5 year old just needs help in that situation imo, to understand why they shouldn't do that and also to help clear it up so they understand natural consequences.

Lucia39 · 03/06/2009 06:53

cazzybabs & Chipping In. I agree with both of your comments. Chipping In - also about the over-reaction of some people.

For what it's worth [and it is only my opinion] a little mild humiliation can work wonders with any child! However, I realise this is dreadfully "non-PC" and goes completely against the popular "child centred" ideas of today.

Incidentally, how did the OP deal with their son when he got home? What sort of punishment did his parents mete out to him?

Lucia39 · 03/06/2009 07:09

edam: In my opinion your comments on "graffiti hysteria" are somewhat ill-judged.
(a) graffiti [in all its guises] causes schools [and local authorities] thousands to clean up [I'm not talking about Banksy here].
(b) children need to taught that other people's property should be looked after and treated with care.

Stayingsunnygirl · 03/06/2009 09:51

I do agree with you, Lucia, but the punishment has to be proportional, and there is a big difference between a child scribbling on a wall and a teenager setting out with his aerosol cans to 'tag' a building or wall. Clearly if the child isn't taught at the scribbling stage that you should respect other people's property, and that there are right and wrong places for his or her art work, then can go on to become the antisocial graffiti-ist, and it is a lesson they do need to learn.

All of my children have, at some point, scribbled in the wrong place, and all of them have been firmly dealt with at the time. Punishments didn't drag on and on as this one did.

One point does occur to me. When formulating the punishment for a misdeed, you need to ensure that you have somewhere to go, if the miscreant does not learn the first time. Since the school has used such a big punishment for the first offence, what can they do if a child were to do this more than once? It seems to me that they haven't left themselves much headroom to escalate the punishment if it were to prove necessary - if a child scribbled on the wall more than three times, public beheading is going to be the only option!! (sarcastic exageration alert)

edam · 03/06/2009 10:18

'graffiti' is hardly an accurate description of one five-year old writing on the world, Lucia, and the school's claim no-one has ever done this before is ridiculous. School is way OTT.

AliGrylls · 03/06/2009 10:53

I agree with you Chipping In and Lucia.

The purpose of a punishment/discipline is to make the child feel sorry for their actions and to make them not want to do whatever they did again, without making them feel angry about the punishment.

Cleaning the board and facing the wall for one break sounds proportionate to me. I agree a week is way too long.

londonone · 03/06/2009 10:58

jodieO - It is actually rather offensive to all those people who do suffer true torture that you seriously consider facing a wall for a few minutes to be a form of torture. As I said I don not work in one school, I have worked in many many schools and you are completely off the mark with your ideas of humiliation. I have no doubt you also consider that children should not be reprimanded in front of others lest it be too humiliating. How exactly do you think schools and teachers should deal with behaviour and discipline? It is not possible for everything to be done 1:1 and in private. Unlike parentinhg teachers are responsible for 30 children at a time, not one or two.

SoupDragon · 03/06/2009 12:38

"Graffiti" is an entirely accurate description of a 5 year old writing on the wall. Or anyone else writing on a wall for that matter - there isn't an age limit to the meaning.

graffiti [graf-fee-tee]
Noun
drawings or words scribbled or sprayed on walls or posters

lilacclaire · 03/06/2009 12:48

I don't care what the teachers on the thread are saying, if someone treated my son like that they better run for the f**cking hills.

Yes make him clean it off and punish him for that day by missing breaks/the chance to play with his friends.

Facing a wall- unnecesarily cruel, all week - whats the point, he won't even remember what he's being punished for.

Original poster
Clydesdale · 03/06/2009 13:15

Crikey - stirred up a bit of a hornets nest! Good to see all the POV's regarding school punishments.

To those who mention CCTV - they used to have it in all the corridors in the school i used to work in in London!

School are now looking at ways to keep ds occupied by upping the level of his work and giving him responsibilites to occupy his mind. I pointed out that he tends to lose interest if he finds work easy (he very bright kid - reading age of 10!.

School policy being changed to ensure parents contacted if more than one days breaks missed. teacher concerned was cover teacher - not in school anymore.

OP posts: