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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School Punishments

145 replies

Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 11:26

Hi all

My year 1 DS drew on a wall during class supervised by a cover teacher on the monday before half term. his punishment was to clean the wall and miss both breaks and lunchplay for the rest of the week. during these breaks he was to stand facing the wall in the playground.

i went mad when i found out! 1 - i was not informed, 2- i felt this was incredibly extreme punishment, 3- how did he get to draw so much in the first place?

Am i so unreasonable to feel that missing breaks and lunch play for a whole week is totally over the top? I know from my other half who is in the forces that facing the wall is a form of sensory deprivation used by the forces prior to interrogation! To do this for a whole week infornt of the whole school seems bullying to me

I am in the process of writing to the school Head, govenor and LEA and would like to see others opinons on this!

OP posts:
Kayteee · 01/06/2009 13:19

and you think that's ok?

Do you wish they could still put dunce-hats on them too

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:21

I see nothing wrong with time outs and having an area where children reflect on what they have done. Facing a wall for 5 minutes is not torture, it's not humiliation. Perhaps you could all tell me what methods you think teachers should use if not time out and missing play for example?

ThePellyandMe · 01/06/2009 13:22

YANBU. I would be horrified if my Y1 Ds was treated in that way. IMO that is a completely disproportionate punishment give his age.

The fact that you knew nothing about it is unbelievable.

FairLadyRantALot · 01/06/2009 13:23

londone...I think it was the extreme measures that school has taken...and humiliating the child nfront of others, by making him face the wall, that is the problem...

troutpout · 01/06/2009 13:25

yanbu

LightShinesInTheDarkness · 01/06/2009 13:25

londonone - i think what we are disagreeing about is the fact that we are seeing being made to face a wall is humiliating for a 5-year old. You either don't agree that it is, or think that the humiliation is not a problem.

You have also said that facing a wall for 5 minutes is not torture, which kind of suggests you think 5 minutes is reasonable for this kind of time out. And a whole play time is a lot longer than 5 minutes.

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:26

I think it was the extent of the punishment that was the problem not necessarily the content. In many primary schools there is a time out are in the playground where children do time out time if there is a problem at playtime, is this too humiliating?

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:27

I don't think that it is humiliating. As I said I do think the length of the punishment was not appropriate.

stealthsquiggle · 01/06/2009 13:28

Nothing wrong with timeouts. Nothing wrong with facing the wall (not face against the wall) so that you can't spend the timeout time pulling faces at your friends. Nothing wrong with it being in view of others - at DS's school outside timeouts involve sitting on the bench with the teachers.

A week is excessive, though - as Londonone said, punishment should be within the scope of the day of the offence at that age.

islandofsodor · 01/06/2009 13:29

YANBU. I would totally support the cleaning the wall and missing playtime in order to do so but standing facing the wall in the playground is totally OTT.

As an aside when dd was in Year 1 they went to somewhere Victorian when they did the pretending to be Victorian schoolchildren thing. dd was made to wear the dunces cap. Now this was only role play but her teacher said she started to get a bit tearful so the teacher almost had to intervene.

Imagine it for real.

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:31

Thankyou stealthsquiggle!

dilemma456 · 01/06/2009 13:31

Message withdrawn

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:32

Islandofsodor - That is completely different wearing a dunces hat because you are less able or because you got something wrong is totally different from having a consequence due to your own behaviour which you chose.

Original poster
Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 13:33

Thank you for all your opinions. I am glad to see tat it is not just me that found it to be an unreasonable period of time.

Yes, he is 5 (nearly 6). Got a meeting witht he Headmistress tomorrow. Any questions you would ask? I got my own list so would be interested to see what you would ask to see if i missed anything!

Out of interest what does YANBU mena?

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 01/06/2009 13:35

There is far too many adults on here putting adult sensibilities on the punishment- facing the wall will not mean standing facing the wall for 15 minutes with no one to talk to like some bizarre Chinese Army torture

It will likely mean not running about, chatting to friends in vicinity of wall, perhaps on a chair or something for comfort.

What is key here is that as parents we should ASK and not ASSUME how a punishment is carried out.

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:36

Top tip - don't start banging on about it being like torture, you won't do yourself any favours!

gerontius · 01/06/2009 13:36

A week is probably excessive, but the rest of it I agree with. Having to stand facing a wall isn't torture - it's so that they can't look at/communicate with/have a laugh with any of their friends who might be around. OK, the teacher was probably a little harsh. But considering it was a punishment given to your DS for misbehaving, is writing to the LEA not a little overreacting?

Original poster
Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 13:38

Out of interest londonone - where in london do you teach? I used to work in a london school.

At no point in my original post did i use the word torture so please can people drop that word!

OP posts:
islandofsodor · 01/06/2009 13:38

QUOTEduring these breaks he was to stand facing the wall in the playground.UNQUOTE

Quote
LaurieFairyCake on Mon 01-Jun-09 13:35:07
facing the wall for 15 minutes with no one to talk to like some bizarre Chinese Army torture

It will likely mean not running about, chatting to friends in vicinity of wall, perhaps on a chair or something for comfortUNQUOTE

The OP clearly said standing facing the wall for the duration or playtime.

The child will learn much more about their actions by being made to clean it up and I would support missing playtime for a whole week doing that if that is what it took.

Original poster
Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 13:39

I work within LEA - so was more a chat with the relevant person!

OP posts:
stealthsquiggle · 01/06/2009 13:41

I am intruiged as to whether any of the people who are so vociferously opposed to a child being made to stand facing the wall ever use 'timeout' or 'naughty step' at home - because it is the same thing - it is a degree of isolation which gives space for the child to consider what they have done and the consequences of it. It has to be in full view - otherwise if the child was removed elsewhere it would require a dedicated person to supervise any child in timeout. It has to be facing the wall in order to achieve any degree of isolation.

Clydesdale - in answer to your question - I would want to know what their sliding scale of 'punishments' is and where your DS's crime sits on that scale - and why they think it appropriate to spread the punishment over a whole week at such a young age.

Kayteee · 01/06/2009 13:42

Glad to see that most of us are living in the modern world though and agree that it's an out-moded way of treating kids.

islandofsodor · 01/06/2009 13:43

But isn't the whole point of timeout to remove a tantrummy/misbehaving child etc from a particular situation to give them time to reflect and calm down there and then.

Not to have timeout for a whole week.

screamingabdab · 01/06/2009 13:43

YANBU

IMO the cleaning of the wall (natural consequences), and possibly the writing of a letter/drawing of a picture to say sorry (on paper!) during a breaktime would be a suitable punishment.

I don't have a problem with being made to take timeout and face the wall during class,in certain circumstances (messing about and distracting others,for example).

BUT being made to stand facing the wall in the playground smacks of ritual humiliation, and is totally unsuitable for a child. That sort of approach is also likely to be counter productive in many children, making them angry and resentful.

gerontius · 01/06/2009 13:43

I think stealth was just responding to the posters that said facing the wall was like torture.