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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School Punishments

145 replies

Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 11:26

Hi all

My year 1 DS drew on a wall during class supervised by a cover teacher on the monday before half term. his punishment was to clean the wall and miss both breaks and lunchplay for the rest of the week. during these breaks he was to stand facing the wall in the playground.

i went mad when i found out! 1 - i was not informed, 2- i felt this was incredibly extreme punishment, 3- how did he get to draw so much in the first place?

Am i so unreasonable to feel that missing breaks and lunch play for a whole week is totally over the top? I know from my other half who is in the forces that facing the wall is a form of sensory deprivation used by the forces prior to interrogation! To do this for a whole week infornt of the whole school seems bullying to me

I am in the process of writing to the school Head, govenor and LEA and would like to see others opinons on this!

OP posts:
Original poster
Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 13:44

please please - what does YANBU mena?

OP posts:
stealthsquiggle · 01/06/2009 13:44

I don't think anyone has said that a whole week's punishment is reasonable/appropriate

gerontius · 01/06/2009 13:44

YANBU=you are not being unreasonable

stealthsquiggle · 01/06/2009 13:45

YANBU = You Are Not Being Unreasonable

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:46

I don't think anyone has said they think the whole week is appropriate! We have all said the duration is wrong.

Clydesdale - I used to work in one of the less desirable boroughs! I have more recently worked in SEBD and am now in an LEA role.

islandofsodor · 01/06/2009 13:49

Oh I'm all for humiliation in certain circumstances. Like today for example when ds wouldn't get dressed. I decided to carry out my threat (made most days) of him going to school exactly as he was so as not to make dd late. As I started to bundle him up in his vest and pants he hurriedly put his polo shirt on and cried in the car all the way that his friends would laugh at him as he had no shoes (I had the rest of the clothes with me).

But we were commenting onthe actual punishment posted which was to stand facing the wall in the playground (not where the misdemeanour occured) for the whole of playtime and lucntime, for a whole week.

That is torture for a 5 year old.

Original poster
Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 13:49

thank you to those who replied for YANBU!

Londonone - I worked in Lambeth !!

I have seen a list of sanctions from the school and I cannot see anything for a whole weeks worth of playtime removal - only for 1 day. This is something I will be raising with the headmistress along with the lack of communication.

OP posts:
Original poster
Clydesdale · 01/06/2009 13:52

yes islandofsodor, the issue is the missing of all playbreaks for a whole week! and facing the wall for those instead of say - outside the staff room like we used to do at school!

if it is that severe for writing on a wall - what would theydo for a more severe ffence

OP posts:
Kayteee · 01/06/2009 13:53

Good for you, and might I suggest that, if you don't get any joy, you insist the HT stands facing the wall every assembly in front of the whole school...wearing a tutu ...fro the next week.

treedelivery · 01/06/2009 13:53

Isn't a break time quite long in 5yo world? Would a 5yo not find standing on their own for that amount of time quite hard?

This seems very full on to me. One break does, never mind a week.

If I, as an adult, had to stand for this amount of time in bored isolation, I wouldn't reflect, I'd think about my sore feet!

I think it is humiliating and isolating to have to do this with peers looking on during their playtime. It's one thing to have to have time out in a class room environment, but to be sent out to the place where everone else is playing and having fun, and to be expected to stand and reflect, at 5 years old. It seems a bit vindictive [sp?] and utterly unlikely to do any good.

Q I'd be asking

What were the elements of the drawing incident that made the teacher/other feel a week of punishment was required.
What....feel every break had to be missed in the day.
How will childs needs be met during this time - he has a need for social interaction, toilet breaks, etc.
How did the school ensure he wasn't approached by other children during this time, particulary in terms of taunting.
How can they ensure he is able to get help if he feels unwell, as 15 mins [a break time?] is a long time to stand.
Who was with him when he cleaned up his writing and what discussion was gone into with him about consequences.
What were you not told of the plan as it is such a big one.
Have other children who have made similar mistakes had the same punishment, is this a standard response?
Is this general punishment plan known by the governers?

Kayteee · 01/06/2009 13:54

"for" the next week That's 20 lashings for bad spelling.

treedelivery · 01/06/2009 13:54

Sorry - mixed my past and present tenses there

YANBU - you are not being unreasonable.

londonone · 01/06/2009 13:55

Island - I can just imagine the response of MNetters if a teacher had done that to a child who was slow changing after swimming for example! IMO that is real humiliation and would be utterly inappapropriate.

Clydesdale - I live closer to Lambeth but was based in Hackney (nice!). I agree I would ask about the duration and seek clarification on what facing the wall actually constituted.

treedelivery · 01/06/2009 13:59

Is this what your ds reported? It is what happened isn't it? How did you find out?

Just a thought before you head in!!!

It would probably be a good idea at the start of your meeting to say 'Would you just run me through the action ds did, and the pucishment that was planned and carried out'

That would be an excellent start infact. If he has had this punishment then the process of the head describing it might be a usefull point to make iyswim?

stroppyknickers · 01/06/2009 14:00

ask to see the discipline policy which must be availale to you, then go from there

LaurieFairyCake · 01/06/2009 14:02

Yes, the OP said that, it doesn't mean it happened like that and that is why she should ask what the punishment actually carried out will be/was.

Of course being made to face a wall every break time for a week is ridiculous. So ridiculous it is completely unlikely it was to happen like that.

islandofsodor · 01/06/2009 14:09

We didn't get as far as the playground, he was allowed to carry on dresing when we got to school. But being slow getting changed and deliberately messing around is two totally different things. School has raised the issue with me with regards to ds and PE and I would support them if they did somethng similar.

treedelivery · 01/06/2009 14:12

LaurieFairyCake - I don't see where the op says it doesn't mean it happened like that, but maybe I am missing it.

Clydesdale - yes, important to get the facts right and clarified by the adults, if all you have to go on is the report by your ds. So say I as my dd [4.5] insists she a sore throat in her elbow.

LightShinesInTheDarkness · 01/06/2009 14:20

londonone - it would be inappropriate for a teacher to take a half-dressed child back to school that way. But there is a HUGE difference between what is appropriate for a mother to do within the confines of a parent-child relationship, and what a teacher at school can do.

londonone · 01/06/2009 14:31

Lightshines - With the exception of physical chastisement teachers are actually required to act in loco parentis so there should be a similar standard expected from teachers as there is of parents. However teachers are held to much higher standards than parents in general.

maria1665 · 01/06/2009 14:33

Since when has it being OK to humiliate children? Standing in front of a wall day after day - that is humiliation and no one sane would dream of treating a child or an adult in this way.

Some teachers do do this type of thing but good teachers never have to - no surprise this was a cover teacher.

And this for writing on the wall - where do you go from here - primary school children do much worse things. Much worse.

Are you going to mention it to the school? We had a similar situation where the conduct of a cover teacher was completely out of step with the rest of the school - a number of parents brought the situation to the head's attention, and she no longer works at the school.

gerontius · 01/06/2009 14:40

The child's going to have to stand in front of a wall! There's nothing wrong with that! Is this not all being blown out of proportion a little?
Also, is this not another of those situations where child misbehaves and parent's first reaction is "how dare the school punish you like this" and not "how dare you draw on walls at school". IMO he's unlikely to do it again after this.

islandofsodor · 01/06/2009 14:41

There is a HUGE difference in how I treat the children I teach/work with and how I treat my own children. You may be in loco parentis but it is still a compeletely different relationship. A parent/child relationship is based on individual knowledge and you have just 1 child (or 2 or 3) at a time.

treedelivery · 01/06/2009 14:43

geronitus - I think it was the standing at every break for a week in the playgroun, rather than the 'standing infront of a wall' alone, iyswim?

londonone · 01/06/2009 14:46

Exactly Island - when you work with children you are judged to a much higher standard than when caring for your own.

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