To remove the toy baby feeding bottle from my dd's new doll bath and feeding set?

[Springfleurs]

I was brought up to think that breast feeding was a strange and rather disgusting thing to do.

Luckily managed to overcome this myself and b/f both dc for 5 months and 14 months respectively.

Took dd to a toy shop today and she chose a doll bath and feeding set. Unpacked it for her when we got in and there is a feeding bottle in there. I know it might seem a bit precious but it irritated me slightly, as though it was a mandatory piece of equipment for all babies/dolls.

Or

I am taking it all rather too seriously?

I think it's probably best not to engage with leonie, after her comments earlier on in the thread it is clear that her views are, for want of a better phrase, extremely extreme, and will not add much to the parts of this thread that are still being conducted more or less rationally.

Sunfleurs- most of us are not 'rabid ff' and that's quite an offensive term;

Rabid;

1. Of or affected by rabies.
2. Raging; uncontrollable: rabid thirst.
3. Extremely zealous or enthusiastic; fanatical

No-one on here has ever said that breast is not best. No-one. And may of the people you have labelled thus actually breastfed their own babies, others (like me) are deesperate too.

In fact, as a neonatal nurse that works with bf mothers every day, and who has undertaken many breastfeeding training courses, I felt that the one good thing that has come from me not being able to feed my own baby, is that my knowledge of breastfeeding and increasing milk supply has vastly improved re: medication, herbs, pumping, breast compression etc. I care IMMENSLY about breastfeeding. Just because I disagree that a toything will encourage a child to ff in the future and feel sad at the way ff are portrayed in this thread, does nopt mean I'm not bothered.

That term is just as offensive as 'bf nazi' a horrible name that should never be used.

Leonie you are being patronising now and there is no need for it.

Break your heart over babies that are really mistreated, not ones that are FF

If anyone ever said anything like that to me in RL they would be met with an elbow in the face.

You have just completely undermined any argument you may have had with that post IMO

I do agree with you about baby rice at 3m though, one of my friends keeps telling me to try it but I am holding out until he is ready so I'm not a complete twat of a mother...

What is a "rabid FFer"?

Am I one?

Everyone on the thread agrees that breast is best so how can anyone be a "rabid FFer"?

I would say that there are certainly some "Extremely zealous or enthusiastic" BF proponents on this thread, though...

LT: pot, kettle, black.

Sadly, there have indeed been certain posters who may have come across as being somewhat "rabid". It may surprise you to know that you yourself come across as one of the best examples of this type of poster.

You have shouted at contributors, accusing them of lying about the additional healthcare costs associated with formula feeding and ridiculed data produced by the WHO. Yet where is your evidence for your assertions or "facts"?

Nancy66 - I very much agree with you that we will never really be able to accurately quantify the cost to the NHS of children not being breastfed and of women not breastfeeding. It's too complex, particularly when you take into account things like cardiovascular health and obesity, both of which relevant to this issue.

There have actually been a few posts about dolls and bottles on here, personally I think that it is a bit over sensitive to think that a young child would start making choices based o what they did as a toddler, I can honestly say I have no idea what I did at that age. I would say it would be a good idea if you were goig to be breastfeeding a new baby because it would then be informative and would involve the toddler if she could 'feed' her doll just like mummy does, but as general rule of thumb I would say no.

I chose to formula feed because that was what everyone around me did and that is what I was told was right, my son has never had any serious illnesses whereas my friends DD who was BF for well over a year is always ill with something but that is down to the individual child as well as feeding method. If someone chooses to use a bottle it is not the end of the world as long as the child is being fed then I am happy with their choice!

I do agree though about the advertising of formula being too much and helping to normalise it, I don't think it should be banned I just think it should be balanced (70% FF to 30% BF) with breastfeedng adverts with breastfeeding taking the majority, but more than anything else we need to get the NHS sorted with more trained midwives and health visitors rather than uninformed workers who spill out random info and who are not able to deal with situations and questions properly, that would be the best outcome all round when it comes to this totally off topic debate!

Also at FF being likened to abuse! How dare anyone make that judgement, a lot of people make the choice not to do it for their own mental being and health!

I brought up the figures for treating gastroenteritis as LadyThompson doubted that 'many' babies suffer illness due to being ff rather than bf.
I was frankly surprised that that was being questioned.

I haven't seen one person here ask a ffer to justify their decision. Not one. And no one has had a go at women who have tried to BF and haven't been able. Any debate about whether a toy bottle will make a difference is inextricably mixed up with the bigger issue of formula advertising, 'bottlefeeding culture' and so on - it's because it's part of that big issue that the OP was debating taking it away at all. You can't look at it separately from that.

It would be like looking at one bottle of South African wine when goods from there were being boycotted due to apartheid, and saying 'but it's just one bottle of wine' - totally missing the point of why someone might not want even that just one bottle.

Again I hope this doesn't sound really harsh, but I do feel it's the responsibility of people who are feeling very sensitive about ffing to stay away from debaty type threads about it, because it's simply impossible in these kinds of topics to stay away from big scary numbers like stats about illness. You can't translate from big stats down to individual cases so no one should be thinking "they're saying I've made my baby ill" when they hear that anyway, but if it is upsetting someone to read that then they might be best staying away - or staying on the thread and getting stuck in to debating whether or not the big scary numbers are true, of course, but not to say 'you can't say that because it upsets me', because that's not discussing the issue, that's trying to shut down discussion.

PS I'm not implying any one individual here has done that, by the way.

LOL @ Rabid FFers and perhaps a WTF!!! I haven't seen one FFer who is trying to change anyones mind here. Seriously the double standards is mindblowing.....

Breast probably is best, but I am glad that all the other loving adults around my DSs got to feed and bond with them them.

Despite my failure to bf I guess that is an advantage of ff.

People have had a go at women who have tried to BF, PM. Or at least one person has, anyway. Which is when it all started to get interesting... Please don't ask me to find the posts as this thread is so huge, but they are certainly there...

Leonie - thats fair enough, its just some of your posts do have a wonderful way of sounding like FFers are somehow consigning their children to a miserable unhealthy life, and as someone else on here put it - that is simply not true

"personally I think that it is a bit over sensitive to think that a young child would start making choices based o what they did as a toddler"

I don't think it really works in that way.

It's about creating subconscious associations, not about triggering a rational internal debate in the minds of children.

Imagine all the mothers to be that are undecided about their method of feeding reading this and deciding that breast feeding is the best option....NOT

Why Nancy? I don't see why that would work?
Because breastfeeders get accused of making others guilty or naive?

feel guilty or being naive

"I am glad that all the other loving adults around my DSs got to feed and bond with them them"

You don't need to bottlefeed a child to bond with them, or breastfeed or that matter!

Scarlet and WME - the 'fact' I take issue with is the laughable one about (one more time, and then I am not saying it again as it is starting to get boring) £35million - per year - UK and Wales alone - on ff induced gastroenteritis. If people want to believe this, fine. I don't care where this comes from. My personal view, to which I am quite entitled, is that it is patently a lie and anyone who believes it is a nutnut. It makes me quite annoyed.

Good luck to people who want to bf and I sincerely hope anyone who does so gets all the support they need. But if you want to encourage people to follow suit, dubious stats, guilt trips and smuggery really aren't the way to do so.