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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To remove the toy baby feeding bottle from my dd's new doll bath and feeding set?

1001 replies

Springfleurs · 30/05/2009 15:23

I was brought up to think that breast feeding was a strange and rather disgusting thing to do.

Luckily managed to overcome this myself and b/f both dc for 5 months and 14 months respectively.

Took dd to a toy shop today and she chose a doll bath and feeding set. Unpacked it for her when we got in and there is a feeding bottle in there. I know it might seem a bit precious but it irritated me slightly, as though it was a mandatory piece of equipment for all babies/dolls.

Or

I am taking it all rather too seriously?

OP posts:
LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/06/2009 12:34

Shit I just wrote a long schpiel and it got deleted and I can't be bothered to do it all again so this a a briefer and probably less well worded version.

This thread is about a dolls bottle in the UK.

Many posters have an understandable beef with formula companies and their actions around the world and want to turn the thread to one railing against formula. Further they want to assume that anyone who disagrees with them is lacking in compassion about these matters, or does not know about them. That is not the case. I disagree because this is a thread about a dolls bottle in the UK. I do not believe that a little girl playing with a bottle will mean that she will FF when she has children of her own. The people around her will have far more of an influence than the bottle ever could. The implication that people with this view must either be uninformed, a bit simple, or simply not care about babies dying (around the world) is both bizarre and offensive.

Re television. I don't know that I watch TV with a "female bias". I think maybe you mean things like loose women and soaps? They're all shit, I never watch stuff like that, so it is possible I take in less advertising of formula etc than someone who does enjoy that sort of stuff. The advertising that I seem to be faced with is debt management and loans. No idea what that says about what "gender" television I'm watching.

As for not thinking about feeding methods before my own children. I know that I am not unusual in having a fairly small family. I didn't have babies around when I was growing up, I wasn't exposed to people feeding them. People with large local extended families may have that but I don't imagine my situation is unusual in modern Britain. When my friends had babies I didn't really pay any attention to how they were feeding them either. I just wasn't interested, I didn't notice. Again I find it hard to believe that in the whole UK I am alone in that attitude.

To me a bottle can equally represent EBM or formula, to many people who have not had children they will simply think "milk" and not give it any further thought whatsoever.

sunfleurs · 01/06/2009 12:36

You "Seems to me, OP saw an opportunity to have lots of people pat her on the back for doing such an amazing job of breastfeeding and decided to post this, knowing full well it would turn into a full on debate re: bf. So, well done. Now we all know youre bf credentials. You should be very proud. Much prouder than me, clearly, who despite still taking medication, pumping and feeding all day, still cries every night that my body has let me down and feels like a crap mother because of that. Well done you."

Absolute rubbish. That was not my intention at all, if that was the case I would still be playing an active part in this thread, which I am not, as I said previously there are far too many more eloquent posters than me on here. My main thoughts were the impact that a child's toy might have on future actions and I wanted to know what others thought.

Yes I am proud that I breastfed but only in so much that I am happy I managed to come up with my own values and breastfeed in spite of all the negativity I experienced while trying to do so.

This was never a thread to make anyone feel bad but if it does well it just the same as any other contentious issue on MN. Why should you FF'ers be exempt, BF'ers have to put up with enough negativity, try being thrown out of shops and cafe's and having people call you "disgusting" or "weird" when you are just trying to feed your child. Bet it has never happened to you has it? Why? Because formula feeding is more socially acceptable and that is just WRONG.

It all starts somewhere doesn't it? Baby = Bottle right there in a small child's play set. It is an important issue and worthy of discussion from all angles imo. A bit weary of hearing these poor old me stories from non breastfeeders and the reasons why. You couldn't or wouldn't feel yes it is sad if you couldn't but that is not what I am talking about on this thread. No-one was supposed to feel bad and I certainly wasn't showing off. I just breastfed my dc, most people can (sorry if you can't) but a lot of people don't because of societal pressures. That is ALL I was trying to discuss.

Nancy 'I often think that the more unhinged members of the BF brigade have probably never achieved anything in their lives other than having kids and feeding them - which is why they bleat on about it so much.'

Thanks for that perfect example of how breastfeeding women are often perceived. I surprised you found the time to post inbetween your perusing everyone's memories as to what they do and do not really remember.

SouthMum · 01/06/2009 12:36

Not at all WME it does matter, but IMO unbiased facts are a better way of allowing people to make informed choices. Not links to some charity webpage or being told that babies will die if FF which sounds a little hysteric IMO

Anyway, AIBU if I take away the toy dog teething thing my dad has just bought for DS incase he thinks our real dog is the teether and tries to sink his teeth into said canine??

MorningTownRide · 01/06/2009 12:37

you and Ponders

I could have written all of your posts!

Especially the bit about reading threads like this as some sort of bizarre punishment!

I wish I could be like shineoncrazydiamond and chosen to ff instead of feeling like a useless mother.

DD is 4 and ds is 2 and I'm still wandering is they'll get some sort of ff type illness (doesn't that sound stupid!)

Get over yerself Springfleurs.

SouthMum · 01/06/2009 12:37

Hysteric?? Is that even a real word?!

sunfleurs · 01/06/2009 12:40

I will get over myself happily when everyone who has come on here blubbing about not being able to breastfeed and seeing this thread as a personal attack does so.

LeonieSoSleepy · 01/06/2009 12:41

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pepperedmackerel · 01/06/2009 12:42

People who ff are making a good parenting decision based on the information available to them and their personal circs - just like any other parent. Other people might not make the same one, other people may have different circumstances or more or less information.

Anyone who looks at stuff like this (the political side) and thinks people interested in it are only out to 'make ff mums feel guilty' is truly making a mistake that learning more about the issue would help to avoid. It's usually a sign that someone is missing a lot of information about bf and ff - boring, factual, research information, like the fact that less ff and more bf would save the NHS a lot of money, not to mention avoiding illness in babies - even in this country - it's a myth that it doesn't affect health here.

I'd speculate that the more ludicrous someone finds the idea of caring about whether or not there's a 'bottle feeding culture' (and taking away a toy bottle), the less difference they believe there really is between breastmilk and formula. I'm sure there are exceptions, but from some of the reactions to statements about, say, the illness in babies in this country, it's clear that there are people on this thread who believe that the difference is just not enough to be worth making any kind of fuss over.

The problem with this whole issue is that we've got two pretty much conflicting aims:

(a) Reassuring people who have already ff or know they will have no choice to do so, by saying neutral/nice things about formula, minimisig the differences, talking a lot about personal choice and so on.

(b) Getting more babies drinking the significantly healthier milk (breastmilk), by making everyone in society care enough about bf that they truly make an effort to support a mother and baby in getting it working.

You just can't get (a) and (b) happening at the same time because they need people to be saying quite different things about bfing, breastmilk, the research and so on. The only way to get (b) to happen is if you're truthful about the difference between the different milks, so you get people feeling let down if anyone pushes them towards formula or doesn't help them bf, and everyone around them cares enough to help them to get it working. The only way to get (a) to happen (never upsetting a ffing mother by talking about bf being better) is to keep quiet about the differences and talk about the issue as one of individual choice with neither option being much better than the other.

I'm generalising now, but it seems to me that most people who have read a lot of the research tend to think (b) is very important - that it really matters that more babies are bfed (not any individual baby, but looking at the whole of society, the big numbers). People who've heard bland 'breast is best' messages but don't know many details tend not to see (b) as all that important and have more of a 'bf is fine if it works but we mustn't say anything that would upset someone who ffs' attitude - (a) is more important to them.

Talking about like this is talking about bfing at a macro level and it's a world away from talking about it one to one with a friend, say. I would never dream of saying or even thinking 'you should have bfed' to someone who ff - how can I know anything about their circumstances, even if I'm a close friend I still wouldn't know everything that would have gone into their decision. If I meet an individual person who ff, I tend to think 'that was probably right for you, you made a good parenting decision wtih the information you had (which may be a little or a lot - I can't know)'. Most people make the best parenting decisions they can. But I can look at 100 000 people say and if only 25% of babies are getting any breastmilk at all at six weeks, say to myself 'that's a bit rubbish', because that represents a lot of extra illness over that many people. And that's where things like a bottlefeeding culture are relevant. It's a huge complex issue and we are all influenced by all sorts of things - it's not as simple as 'see a bottle, ff later'. And the people who are interested in the whole issue in that way - as a big social and political issue - are just not interested in other mums individual feeding decisions, or in comparing them with their own, or in 'making people feel guilty' - honestly I can't think of anything more boring than making someone who ff feel guilty - but I do find the whole issue of the influences on infant feeding, the politics and so on, interesting and important.

LeonieSoSleepy · 01/06/2009 12:43

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Nancy66 · 01/06/2009 12:43

If the whole aim is to try and get more women to BF then some of the madness paraded on here surely achieves the complete opposite?

SouthMum · 01/06/2009 12:43

Morning - I worry about my FF DS getting ill, and the sad thing is I bet there are some out there that will smugly say "I told you you should have BF" if he did - despite the fact that the illness probably could have affected a BF baby just as easily.....

you · 01/06/2009 12:44

this link suggests the cost (in 1992 though) of hospital admissions for babies with gastroentiritis was £12. That's for all babies, not just ff, so we can presume 10-20% of that was spent on bf babies

LadyThompson · 01/06/2009 12:44

If you really believe that, Leonie, well there's not much that I can say, because it is ridiculous and anyone with even one iota of common sense would know so at first sight.

Oh, and next time you need medical advice, do go to some cranko offshoot of Unicef rather than your GP - there's a love.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/06/2009 12:44

Don't listen to a word of it you. Great name BTW. I am sorry that things didn't work out for you, but try not to let it get on top of you. FF babies in this country aare, of course, absolutely fine, as your DD will be. If I were you I'd leave this thread alone, there are some very extreme views on it and, as I have learnt to my cost, it's best not to get too involved in threads like this about things which are current and close to your heart

you · 01/06/2009 12:45

Sorry that's obviously £12 million not just £12

LeonieSoSleepy · 01/06/2009 12:47

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LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/06/2009 12:48

Unless you want to stay of course you!

These people are a bit like the terminator though, so don't expect to get anywhere!

LadyThompson · 01/06/2009 12:51

No, I'm not. Just calling people when they are peddling nonsense. And those figures are nonsense.

StealthPolarBear · 01/06/2009 12:51

"You do know you're not actually going to win a breastfeeding medal, right? And that your kids are not going to turn round one day and say 'Oh thank you mummy for breastfeeding me so nicely'. They are babies who get fed and then grow up to be children, and even people. Newsflash: The single thing that defines us is not how we were fed as babies."

Not this AGAIN. We've cycled through this about 3 times now.

you you were incredibly offensive in what you said about the OP. You should be ashamed of yourself.

SouthMum · 01/06/2009 12:52

Peppered - I would be one of the exceptions you talk about, as I did make a choice to BF initially due to the health (and cost) benefits.

TBH I think I still harbour a bit of ill feeling from the HV who tried to scare me into carrying on with BFing so it makes me ultra sensitive when I see things like "FF babies die". Its just a bit unnecessary IMO and as I said earlier if the aim isn't to make people who choose to FF feel guilty with phrases like that then I don't know what is.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 01/06/2009 12:52

leonie the reason people who have been unsuccessful at BF come and say it is because they feel incredibly guilty. They feel incredibly guilty because of people who express views like the ones on this thread. They hope that those same people will say "oh well you did your best, never mind, don't worry". Of course it is a fruitless exercise because they are then told that they didn't try hard enough, that it is their own fault, and that of course their child will suffer as a consequence.

But then you knew that really didn;t you, you were just having a dig.

LeonieSoSleepy · 01/06/2009 12:53

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LeonieSoSleepy · 01/06/2009 12:54

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StealthPolarBear · 01/06/2009 12:54

no people say stop discussing the facts because i feel sad
censor the facts for other women to spare my feelings.
that' vile

you · 01/06/2009 12:55

Sunfleurs no, that has never happened to me. And I do bf my DD (before ff topups) when in public. My mother who bf all 3 of us, and 3 of my closest friends who had babies within a month of me (and ex bf) haven't had any bad experiences feeding in public either. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it does. But fwiw ff get a lot of flak in public too- check out the bf/ff boards and you'll see plenty of derogetory comments have been made toward bottle feeding mothers.

And tbh I still believe this thread wasn't started in an innocent manner. If you've been on here longer than a few mins, you will know how these threads go. If you wanted genuine opinions instaed of a pat on the back and a bunfight, you would have posted on the feeding boards imo

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