To remove the toy baby feeding bottle from my dd's new doll bath and feeding set?

[Springfleurs]

I was brought up to think that breast feeding was a strange and rather disgusting thing to do.

Luckily managed to overcome this myself and b/f both dc for 5 months and 14 months respectively.

Took dd to a toy shop today and she chose a doll bath and feeding set. Unpacked it for her when we got in and there is a feeding bottle in there. I know it might seem a bit precious but it irritated me slightly, as though it was a mandatory piece of equipment for all babies/dolls.

Or

I am taking it all rather too seriously?

Why is that patronising wasting?

I am making an honest observation as Nancy was.

We see it constantly on MN when threads get hijacked - you can almost guarantee it on threads about bf or working.

I actually agree with your point that bf is a political as well as a personal issue. I agree that some women are let down by health professionals, and that society should do more to promote bf.

What I will not accept is being told, when I mention that some women see using bottles as liberating because the other parent can feed EBM, that I am clearly prioritising going out and working over raising my children. Read the thread - that's what Leonie said. And I'm afraid when you read that sort of shite, you realise that for a minority, it's not a rational debate about bf, it's a chance for them to sling mud around to compensate for whatever is missing in their own life.

goodness you see systemic conspiracy and "conning women" everywhere

who are the perpetrators
how do they get away with this "conning"
why,what purpose is achieved in this con.
or do you suggest the pervasive and persuasive formula companies influence and permeate society/Govt.

quite insulting and ludicrous that health workers who are supposed to abide good practice participate in the con

i more go for insufficient staffing,stretched resources,and a recent baby boom stretching maternity services

"I don't think Nancy said some women bf because it's the only thing they can do."

But that is what she said isn't it?

"They feel threatened by women who are achieving more in their lives. Sad but true."

You don't really believe this, do you? more surely depends on your point of view. Which can be different for everyone.

Yes, juule, I do absolutely believe it, for the reasons outlined in my post above (which I think crossed with yours).

It would be lovely to believe that women all co-exist happily, whatever their views on feeding/working/whatever. All of them totally secure in the choices they've made and the lives they're living.

But get real! Read a few MN threads. There are dozens of women who harbour resentments towards others. Of course, for different women, achievements will mean different things - as for men. The problem is when people like Leonie believe that by achieving one thing, you must be missing out on another - ie: if I express milk and go out to work, then I must be prioritising going out to work over raising my children. Wrong! I prioritise raising my children. I just happen to do other things AS WELL. If you want to never go anywhere without your baby for the first six years of its life - fine. Whatever floats your boat, as long as you and your partner are happy with that. The problem is when you believe people who do it differently are somehow missing out on something - because we're not.

I did want to discuss the toy bottle issue LTOS, but any criticism of formula promotion is seen as an attack on ff mothers by some.

That's an interesting thought vh - I don't agree with the earlier stuff but I think you're right about implied (or inferred) criticism of others' choices. The fact is we all make the choice that's best for us, and if we don't feel forced down any particular path by other people / society / circumstances, then that's fine.

VH I know what you mean. I have been asked very abruptly by some of the women at my work (and my work is predominantly women with children) whether I BF DD.

When I say yes I am curtly asked "how long for".

When I tell them they always look disappointed, for whatever reason. Presumably as I have denied them the opportunity to feel that they are better than me.

It has happened about 3 times and it's very odd. None of them have taken it quite as far as Leonie though, I suppose they can't really as they are working themselves.

There are certainly people like that around, plenty of them if I'm honest. I find that their combative approach is very offputting. I don't want to be in "their gang" if you will. Even if on the whole I agree with their opinions, I disagree strongly with the delivery.

Wasting but people can't seem to accept that a bottle doens't necessarily symbolise formula for many people, so the toy doesn't automatically lead into a FF/BF debate.

I did speak to the midwife, the HV and look at NCT information, I took advice from more then one Dr and all advice sadi the same, I was not to BF.

I don't feel cheated, I'm not bitter, I have too much else in life to worry about and it was years ago.

As for the toy bottle as I said before personal choice but I really do not think a toy at 2 will influence much in 20 years time.

I am honestly surprised that you don't see why it's been said that a bottle symbolises formula to most people.

I'm talking about symbolism here, not what it actually may contain.
But the fact that the majority of people were ff, most babies are ff and that many people of older generations don't even know about expressing means that most people think of formula when they think of a bottle.

VH If you had put that they feel threatened by women who are doing things a different way in their lives, then maybe I'd have agreed to some.
But you didn't. You put
"They feel threatened by women who are achieving more in their lives. Sad but true."

In which case you are just as bad as the ones you are calling. You appear to be implying that your way is better because you are achieving more (whether you are or not, who knows? Depends on the individuals priorities).

And yes, I agree that there seem to be women who aggressively attack other women for not doing things the way they think it should be done i.e. their way.

As I said earlier, extremes of any kind are usually unpleasant and to be avoided.

ime,only on MN does mode of feeding get so emotive.in RL no one gets this het up

but that is the internet way,the pc warriors tapp tapping mental extreme views because they don't interact with you in RL.also internet gives anonymity and edge so that people do type contentious stuff.because they can,with no real consequences

someone once said to me on MN "don't know why you bothered having a baby if you go out to work putting it in nursery"

yes,avaricious ole me.how very dare i

Yes, I missed that HoochieMooMa.

Scottishmummy, the formula companies are all pervasive.
In the US they funded the building of maternity hospitals. You know where babies are all kept separate from the mothers in nurseries.
They advertise to HCPs, who then advise mothers on feeding choices.
The purpose of the con? Money of course, what else.

ah a good ole conspiracy theory!
who are the perpetrators
how do they get away with this "conning"
why,what purpose is achieved in this con.
or do you suggest the pervasive and persuasive formula companies influence and permeate society/Govt.

nah,will pass on the book recommendation if it contains that style of conspiracy and quasi-research.

so are there masses of women impervious to this con and travesty.all of course except folk here who see the manifestations of the con.how clever.

are you seriously suggesting some covert plan or strategy

govt cant keep a disk of our NI numbers and child benefit details safe.butyet can they conceal or collude in a feeding con

I was going to read the thread then saw how many posts and decided against it!

No you're not. I do it too! I have a fake boob I made during my peer support course and Tink loves using that to feed her dolls (on her lap because it's heavy lol) although since Fifi was born she will lift her top.

Breastfeeding needs to be normalised to little girls (and boys ofc) feeding their dolls so it's ingrained on them and they grow up knowing that's just what you do.

class,age,educational attainment and peer/family support are biggest factirs in choosing mode of feeding

i do find it hugely egotistical,the suggestion that the informed few know of the con and the suggestible masses are seduced and conned

most surveys of feeding choices usually cite poor or inconsistent advice for giving up bf

not oligopolistic practice and sinister marketing

Before I had children bottles honestly didn't represent formula for me. If someone asked me what was in dolly's toy bottle I would have said "milk". I would not have thought about it any further.

If pressed I might have said it was cows milk.

Of course when I became pg and read the books and talked to people and went for ante-natal classes I found out that there was BF and there was formula. I suppose I was aware of BF before but i don't think I really knew anything about formula or had spared it a thought. My decision on how to feed my child was based on what I learned after I was pregnant.

I honestly believe that many many people are like that. Babies drink milk, and that's as much thought is given to the matter.

I really don't connect the toy bottle for the dolly with formula at all.

And is is certainly a fact that many women give bottles of EBM.

I think that once women have had their own children, and the issue of FF becomes very important for them, they may have a tendancy to read too much into what non-mothers will really make of the provision of a bottle with a doll. A lot of people, like me, will probably think it's cows milk. And then when they come to have their babies, they will be educated and make a decision based on that.

Far more important IMO is what your peers etc do with their children, what is the norm in your area etc, than what a dolly has.

Perhaps con wasn't the exact right word.

Companies need to eliminate their competitors to ensure maximum profits. So Tesco slag off Asda, Asda slag off Tesco.
And formula companies do everything in their power to stop women breastfeeding. It's more subtle in this country than in others, and the WHO and other bodies have been working around the world to prevent the formula manufacturers from doing things like handing out free samples, but the undermining of breastfeeding is happening everywhere formula has reached.

My last post was in response to wasting's question BTW.

i am also talking about the nice,WHO,and royal colleges guidelines and best practice which support BF

govt has invested heavily in training and emphasising bf benefits

but hey there are bad hcp practitioners out there dishing out outmoded advice

i put that down to fuckwittery rather than conspiracy

LTOS, no one has said I don't think that the toy bottle alone will dictate feeding choice. Just as that horrid SMA advert, or your MILs opinion alone won't solely dictate feeding choice.
But it all adds up.