To think that if you cannot afford free range chicken/turkey meat and eggs...

[LolaTheShowgirl]

...then don't buy at all?

I mean the suffering these birds go through in cramped, dirty sheds is unbelievable. There is usually no natural light and the birds are usually ill before they're culled.

If you can stomach it, please look at these:
WARNING: NOT NICE PICTURES!
HERE

I'd vote for xenia rather than the preachy B.U.L.L.I.E.S ranting

B- bloody
U- unbeleivable
L- lackadaisical
L- lumpen proleteriat
I- ignoring
E- Everything
S- said to them

what do you mean some people dont eat free range - harrumph

cestlavie

perhaps you'd all like to come to my house & see my chickens ? I have 2 pure breeds & one ex battery. She has a clipped beak & is currently ill. How do I know she;s ill ? because she is standing doing nothing. Yes, I think she is suffering. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do until 6:30pm when she goes to the vet. What about the other 2 souless creatures ? well they are having a great time - scratching around, rolling in the dust, running to greet me everytime I go into the garden.

I'm interested in all the people that are pro battery eggs/chickens - do you buy nothing else other than the basic foods ? Ever buy take outs, magazines? fags ? booze ? I expect so - these are the luxuaries, not humane food. Yes, I expect you do need somewhere the size of wales to cater for free range chickens, but get rid of chicken nuggest, KFC et al & the picture would be very different. My mil LOATHES organic food, entirely due to the cost, yet she's quite happy to spend £40 a week on wine.

We're a very fortunate generation with way too much choice & expectations which exceed our basic needs.

I buy battery chicken, but am not pro-battery chicken if that makes sense. I just buy whatever the cheapest is. Sometimes they have the better quality chicken on offer in which case I will buy that and I expect the same goes for the majority of others on here too.

Why only cater for our basic needs? Some people actually get enjoyment out of a nice meal with a bit of meat in it, are we not allowed some pleasures in life? Last time I checked it was 2009 not the war.

Don't actually know why I am posting on here still. At the end of the day its the pro FR brigade that are hell bent on trying to change the rest of us, if we all bought FR you would want us to stop something else. Me? I'm happy for you to eat whatever you want if its legal and makes you happy!!

A.A. Gill is wrong. Actually it would take an area just over a thousandth of the size of Wales, if we assume 8 weeks to grow a 2.5kg chicken (broilerhouses take 6-7) and 10 portions per bird.
(1000mx1000m=1 million chickens per km2. 30 million chickens x 8 weeks =240, divide by 10, =24. Wales is around 20 000 square km.)

You can adjust the assumptions a bit and give people an eighth of a chicken, or take 10 weeks to grow one, but you still don't come out with more than around 0.2% of Wales.

(I love A.A.Gill and I'm pro poor people being allowed to buy battery and broiler stuff. Bugger.)

yes we live in a propsperous 1st world country and there is no absolute poverty but there is relative poverty.and some families do struggle and dont have enough (even for Free range chicken)

yes we have consumer durables our parents didnt have,but our expectations have changed too. people used to settle for outdoor toilet.now that would be inconceivable.

so to an extent our expectations are always shifting.read recently that many people consider mobile phone a necessity. Undoutedly some will take issue with that.but my point is we are subject to marketing and peer pressure and to an extent having consumer durables is desireable.

Of course there is real poverty. But anyone who can afford to contribute to this conversation (ie has a computer and internet access at home) can afford it, they just choose not to.

I'd rather people would just say that they don't give a shit. At least Xenia is honest

what about free pc in library?

how bombastic to assume people should eat Free range because someome else wants them to

do you advocate the chicken police go and round up the disssenters with broad band but no Free range chicken.sheesh

how such we punish these indolent shoppers.
how very dare anyone exert their own free will
anyone would think we lived in a free country

For the last time, I'm not saying anyone has to eat free range (although I'd prefer it if they did), I'm saying they should be honest and say that they don't care enough to prioritise it over other things/aren't interested in animal welfare rather than coming out with the poverty argument which doesn't apply to 99% of MNers I suspect. Anyway, I'm bored of splitting hairs and am now going out into the garden. Enjoy the sunshine

cant comment whether 99% of MN are not in poverty as i reckon 75% of statistcs are made up on the spot

Has xenai morphed into descartes whilst we weren't looking?

LOL oilveoil, i was thinking about you last night for some starnge reason and wondered if you were still around.

Why should they say that they don't care if that isn't the truth, spicemonster? Putting chicken welfare lower than your family's welfare doesn't mean they don't care.

And I honestly don't think we can judge other people's choices when we don't know their personal circumstances. We can make guesses and generalisations, but until we've walked a mile in their shoes, we can't know.

I will say it spicemonster, I care only a little bit and as I have enough money I buy free range/organic (mostly because I do believe it is better for my family).

But to be honest if I had to watch the pennies, I simply don't care enough to not buy battery chicken. I have read all the available info, watched the shows, seen the pictures and I simply don't care all that much. Now prove a link between crappily raised animals and human health and I will care, but until then - not really.

I may be a heartless bitch, but at least I am an honest heartless bitch.

Thank you Morloth

I am not interested in the turn this debate has taken but it is still on my list of threads and I just wanted to say to morloth - CJD

I get that pointydog, but that doesn't make anyone care any more about the actual animals does it? It just re-raises my (much) earlier point that people may change for their own benefit but that the majority of people will not change for the animal's benefit.

I have no interest in gettin gpeople to care about animals. And yes, of course, most people will only change to benefit themselves. That's just the way it is.

So maybe people don't even care about themselves Riven. I can't imagine there are very many people in the UK (or the West but I guess we are talking local) who don't actually know about that stuff and still they just don't give a damn, so why would they give a fuck about the chickens?

Stupid question I know Riven but do you get a grant or any sort of money to help cover the expense of her special diet?