To think that if you cannot afford free range chicken/turkey meat and eggs...

[LolaTheShowgirl]

...then don't buy at all?

I mean the suffering these birds go through in cramped, dirty sheds is unbelievable. There is usually no natural light and the birds are usually ill before they're culled.

If you can stomach it, please look at these:
WARNING: NOT NICE PICTURES!
HERE

It's not really about choice for many people.
There are lots of people out there just about getting by, some on benefits, some are working, but their money doesn't go on cars, expensive clothing and leisure.
It goes on the basics-rent/mortgage, fares, bills and food.
Of course it is better to buy organic meat but not many people have that choice.
Cheap meat has to be good enough for them, and there is nothing wrong with that

'But leafy green vegetables and kidney beans aren't going to give charlotte's children a varied, balanced diet, chaya.'

Yes they are!

I think the rich/poor thing is a bit of a red herring tbh. Whether you are Rockefeller or Oliver Twist, you could almost certainly improve your diet by halving the amount of meat you eat & replacing it with pulses & veg - simply because the average Western diet is way, way overloaded with animal protein.

& if most meat-eating families did this, they could buy better quality meat because pulses cost bugger all. You can do a shepherd's pie with organic lamb, lots of veg & lentils for less than the price of using all cheap mince.

I think people get defensive because through no fault of their own, they can't cook from scratch because they've never been taught.

Leafy green veg and kidney beans may well be balanced, but not balanced and varied, raven. And I get the impression that charlotte is cooking from scratch.

I'm getting fed up of all these excuses. There is no excuse for allowing this cruelty to continue, and by buying the standard chickens, you are doing just that, and you do have alternatives, as people have pointed out, but you choose to ignore this just to contribute to your oh-so-easy-unthoughtful lives.

I'm sorry to bang on about ti and repeat myself and other people.

This so called Cheap meat- It just ISN@T healthy....
#not for you or for the animals.

It really isn't good for you.

so the healthy alternative has to be no meat, if you can't afford better/healthy meat...

Crap chicken vs pulses- i can't see whay there is a proportion of people on here who keep saying to give my kids a healthy balanced diet - i have to buy cheap meat .
anyway, too far downa bottle of vino to have a good opinion

ha ha ha oopsagain! is everything looking blurry yet?

Lola, this thread was actually becoming quite positive, imo - people making actual helpful suggestions, rather than just lecturing people whose circumstances you know nothing of - like charlotte. You don't know her budget or her family yet you presume to sit in judgement on her, saying her life is oh-so-easy and unthoughtful!!

You are being very rude, insensitive and superior, and frankly your nastiness is highly unlikely to make me want to change my habits. I'm far more likely to change if encouraged and if people suggest other options.

So lose the arrogance and stop damaging your own cause!

You are NOT being unreasonable and you are certainly not being rude. How ridiculous to suggest this.

We've lost one income and had to cut down drastically, but have still managed to avoid battery farming. Cheaper cuts of chicken - I practically never buy chicken breasts now - free range thighs and legs are really cheap and often on offer, plus we just eat less meat now. I think we are healthier for it. I use Quorn pieces for chicken fajitas and the children don't even know.

I've also saved a packet by avoiding the big supermarkets and shopping locally at the greengrocers and my local Co op - who, God bless em, refuse to sell battery farm eggs.

Its lack of information that prevents people from making choices. Attempting to stifle debate is not helping .

"This so called Cheap meat- It just ISN'T healthy....not for you or for the animals."

Well I'm not sure how unhealthy it is really for people. I think that factor may be exaggerated, but I think we can agree that chopping an animal up and roasting it with some potatos it is as bad for the animals long term health as it can get

Also vegetables get all kinds of crap sprayed on them (some even put manure on them ffs) so unless you can be sure to eat only organic veg I think the safest, most sensible plan is not to eat at all. I think this is the choice all right-thinking people can agree on.

It's certainly not lack of information that has "made" me buy cheap chicken recently, neither is it my inability to cook from scratch . I find both comments quite derogatary tbh!

I mostly cook from scratch, don't buy ready-meals etc but as my children don't enjoy eating pulses, I have bought cheaper chicken in order to provide them with some sort of protein. (Btw, I previously bought at the very least, Tesco welfare chilcken but as we're not entirely sure how we're going to pay the mortgage and bills on Monday, I have had to resort to less acceptable standards.)

I have been swayed by some people on here to therefore eat less meat but tbh, when I find people preaching at me to do this or to cut out that, it hardly spurs me on to make a change. Other than for the health of my children. Obviously.

I'm all for a healthy debate but I can't abide preaching. I am off now ( as Expat advised me to do last night) and I shall let you all wallow in your self-righteousness and let us all hope that never a shop bought cake made with battery eggs or the like shall ever pass your saintly lips.

onager - you jest, but some lobby group once trotted out the 'they use manure you know' line out in an attempt to discredit organic farming.

Scary thing is, there probably are people out there who haven't got a clue how food is grown who were horrified.

(Think the lobby group may have been 'evil giant corporate agribusiness bastards who hate happy chickens'. ).

This thread isn't about organic meat though onagar - it's about free-range. There is a difference.

I don't think you'll ever convince everyone Lola. Some people are determined that if it's in the supermarkets then it's okay for them to buy it as if they want the supermarkets to be their ethical guardians. And that if they are short of cash, it's okay to buy factory farmed chicken because it's a cheap source of protein. It's crap but you are always going to get a few people who put their wallets first. But I suspect you have changed some people's minds with this thread so that's made it worthwhile I reckon

Have you ever considered that some people honestly don't give a shit about the welfare of chickens - or other animals tbh (I'm not stating that I agree with this btw).

Until supermarkets stop providing it as an option then some people will always buy it. If the cheap chickens aren't sitting on the shelves, no-one can buy them. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me but some of you seem hell-bent on educating the "ignorant". It's not going to happen!

Stop selling it = nobody buys it!

Lol at onagar.

I must agree with the OP in that I tend not to buy chicken, or only very occasionally, rather than buying a cheap one. The problem I have is with people who clearly could afford to buy a free range chicken every couple of weeks, since they're buying 2 of the standard ones every week and wasting half of it. But do these people really exist or only on Channel 4?

I hate food shopping with a passion because it is so full of guilt. When I buy chicken I buy free range, and I try to always buy organic milk. The chicken thing is uppermost in my mind after HFW's efforts. I know it is illogical but I can't afford free range everything so for other meats (which consist of mince, stewing beef and cheap cuts of lamb mostly, which I know should also be free range/organic) I will always buy British produce. At least that gives some peace of mind about welfare, compared with foreign meats, although I know it isn't ideal.

As for vegetables, I despair when I shop in the vegetables aisle at Tesco. We're in June and yet the new potatoes are from Israel. What is going on there? Plenty of food for guilt. Again I try to always buy seasonal British produce.

I wish I had a really good local box scheme and farm shop, but I have tried these. The box schemes don't deliver out here, and the farm shop is just not reliable enough in terms of stock. It's a minefield.

Look at me wishing the year away there! Well it's nearly June anyhow.

Supermarkets sell what people buy. It's unreasonable for anyone to expect them to uphold animal welfare standards but I do think the government should ban battery farming.

I must be a bit of a hippy - can't abide the idea that an animal has had a really vile life so that I can save a fiver.

......and people buy what supermarkets sell!

Hence my point that if the supermarkets made an ethical choice to not sell these cheaper chickens then people wouldn't have the opportunity to buy them!

You are however, never in a month of Sundays, going to persuade everyone to buy differently if there is the choice to do so.

Really going now cos this discussion is going round in circles. Happy debating!

so lola only prosperous preachy types should eat meat and bray on about what everyone else should do

marvellous you have the disposable income to chose organic room to roam.other ordinary less prosperous people try to put affordable food on the table

marvellous that you care but your message here is too simplistic and overlooks that some people cant flex their economic prosperity and ethics like you can

Am I right in believing that Lola doesn't have children yet? Not important when it comes to your beliefs and all but I remember the days before dh and I had our children and money and set ideas on life......oh how times have changed

Let's hope her ethics remain when she's not sure how to pay the mortgage and her children don't like the lentils put before them. I truly hope you stay focused.

Am definitely off this time!

I would not claim to be an expert, but I did read a while ago that the average person in Britain consumes 8 times more protein than is needed to stay alive. It has never occurred to me to worry that my children were going short on protein and I am surprised that so many people on this thread are worrying about it. But it could be me that is misguided.

I know that people in the past doing manual jobs and on very restricted cheap carbohydrate based diets did have a lack of protein, and that still happens in some parts of the world, but I don't think children in this country are really at risk as diet has to be so restricted for that to happen.

There is micro malnutrition in children in this country from lack of vitamins and minerals, but that is linked to the lack of variety in fruit, veg and pulses. I can't see there is a need to eat cheap chicken, which is relatively low in protein anyway.

I'd be interested if anyone knew the accurate info on protein consumption.

IN terms of things that are wrong in the world that need to be campaigned against, batery chickens are actually pretty low on the list for a lot of people. Immoral wars, women's oppression, homelessness, racism probably take a higher priority in many people's lives. ANd expecting people who are already poor and struggling to rearrange their lives and expend effort and money they don't have to spare just to indulge the whims of a few comfortably off unimaginative whiners is pathetic.

I can easily afford free range. I buy caged on principle. Thankfully we live in a free society where we don't have to share the same views of others.

I disagree SGB - I think that the choices we make in our day to day life reflect our interaction with the world in general. Why should someone who doesn't give a shit about the provenance of their food give a shit about stuff which doesn't impact on them directly? I would be very surprised if any of the people on this thread who expect supermarkets to be their ethical guardians are spending their days campaigning on other more important issues. It's symptomatic of a highly individualist approach to life. I don't campaign fervently to end battery farming, I just don't support it. There is a difference.