To think that if you cannot afford free range chicken/turkey meat and eggs...

[LolaTheShowgirl]

...then don't buy at all?

I mean the suffering these birds go through in cramped, dirty sheds is unbelievable. There is usually no natural light and the birds are usually ill before they're culled.

If you can stomach it, please look at these:
WARNING: NOT NICE PICTURES!
HERE

@ Xenia

Thats just a horrible thing to say [hope's she joking]

Been lurking and some of the comments on here are quite amusing actually. Still laughing at the one person who said that organic lamb mince and all the trimmings is cheaper than a packet of normal beef mince Is that a fact

Anyway, I'd just like to throw in again that for me if I have spare money at the moment I'd rather put it into savings for my kid and incase we lose our jobs in the recession. So at the moment how my (LEGAL) food was raised ain't really top of my concern list. It does still bother me, but as long as it is cheap and tastes reasonably nice (nicer in the case of the chicken IMO) I'll carry on buying it.

I'm a bit fed up of being ranted at to eat veg all the time aswell and bulk it out with whatever - a bit of variety in my meals is one of the small pleasures in life at the moment.

I certainly wasn't trying to stifle debate. But I do not feel that lola's attitude encourages debate - it seems to me that she's actually put a number of people's backs up, including mine, and that is far more likely to make me dig my heels in than to make me think about the issues.

Personally, I struggle with change - mainly due to my depression. It is easier for me to stick to my tried and tested menus and recipes - and since there are days when I struggle to do the basics (getting out of bed, having a shower, making myself a drink), anything that makes it possible for me to keep functioning and keep on caring for my family so that I am not a constant burden to them, is vital.

I know that if I am to change, it has to be gradual and it has to be achievable. The last thing I need is yet another reason to regard myself as a failure - ie, not only am I failing my family because of the depression, but now, apparently, I am lazy, thoughtless and am failing the chickens too.

".....it seems to me that she's actually put a number of people's backs up, including mine, and that is far more likely to make me dig my heels in than to make me think about the issues."

What are you, four? That's really really childish. I won't think about the issue because you've annoyed me.

Depression is another issue.

Nobody is trying to make anyone seem like a failure. I think all this thread is trying to do is to ask people to consider and think. If you, as a consumer don't consider animal welfare a priority, then that is your right. I still don't get all the hostility that's emerged about it.

I'm not sure that it's a childish reaction, more a human one, myself. Surely it makes more sense to have a thoughtful debate with respect from both sides, than to make a group of people feel inferior and cross? Isn't there a saying - you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!

Riven, I think there's a world of difference between what you wrote and what lola's written. I'm sure that what you said about cheap chicken is far less likely to annoy people than lola's attitude that anyone who buys it is thoughtless, uncaring and lazy.

free range or organic poultry does cost more than value chicken.go look at the prices see the difference

so of course this is all about money.if one has a limited budget,then value products and own brand are going to offer more food for your money than an organic free range product

the op is all about ability to afford more expensive poultry etc - indeed lola suggestion is if you cant afford the pricey stuff dont buy at all

people have to make their cash stretch the best way they can.it is hard enough to be on a finite budget without being berated about the limited choices you have

I don't believe it's about money. It's about values and priorities.

Some people don't care about animal welfare, don't think about the impact their choices have on the environment, the food chain and the end product in Tesco. They're not interested.

People don't like being told what to do and will dig their heels in, make excuses and bleat justifications. But at the end of the day I don't accept that it's all about budgeting and trying to feed your children. It's about refusing to educate yourself about the issues, putting your head in the sand and fundamentally not caring about animal welfare.

Why do you think it is going to help the cause if you tell people that they are uncaring, bleating, and refuse to educate themselves, RockinSockBunnies?? Implying that people don't have the right values and priorities isn't going to make them want to listen.

money carries a face and economic value and if you have a finite budget you cannot afford organic room to roam then you cannot putchase it

some sweeping generalisations going on here that if some people buy value etc poultry they dont care.perhaps they do care but dont have the economic clout to flex their ethical or moral choices

limited monery impedes choice and berating people for the fact that they have limited choice and chose value etc is really prechy and nasty

maybe not get your knickers in a twist about child poverty in UK,and children and families who go hungry or lack balanced nutrition.rather than bleating on because some dont buy organic

talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees for the leaves

AA Gill wrote a great article for the Times regarding free range/intensively farmed food. The gist of his argument was that if say, 30 million people wanted to eat chicken once a week, and allow the birds to have a metre of space each, it would take up an area the size of Wales. And that is once a week, ad infinitum. An intensive population requires intensively farmed food, be it crops or animals. Comes down to basic economics.

Shall we begin by starving the old and the poor first, in order to keep demand down?

I have just checked on Tesco's website. It's £2 more expensive for a free range chicken than a battery one. Over 2 meals for a family of 4, that's peanuts. If it makes you feel more comfortable to hide behind your not being able to afford it then fine but that is all it is. Or that you couldn't actually give a shit about animal welfare. At least that'd be honest.

And for then 100000000th time, this isn't about organic, it's free range

so out of interest does the same logic extend to the value soap powders,bleaches etc? Are those non ecover non-biodegradeable consumers are they lazy dont care too

iamgine how clever i felt when i realised that eating veggie is healthier and cheaper
bypasses isssue completley

who are you addressing your points to Spice?you seem a bit het up

i am fortunate i can afford to buy the food i want.however many many families cannot, and child poverty is unfortunately all too common in uk.and a wee £2 here and there over a week and cumulatively mounts up.might be £2 to some to others that is the milk,bread money.for dome people things are that tight

so i get irked at reading berating people on limited budgets to make certain choices

Buy caged chicken on principle... I said. Why not? Animals don't have souls. The animal wouldn't have been there if it hadn't been bred for that purpose. It has a better time than being killed in the wild. There is not a huyge moral consequence if it suffers a little. That is equally as valid a view point as those of animal rights compaigners.

This animal rights stuff and eco living and global warning is just a control tool for the populace adn for many people has simply replaced religion in their lives but they drink it in like lamb's to the slaughter and let it define their food choices.

(Will be tucking into the vewy cheap Tesco chicken tonight despite my £Xxxx income pa).

I could give 5 other arguments as to why it's morally better to buy the eggs from the caged birds too.

Xenia. I'm quite convinced that you are thoroughly mad.

You don't need a soul to be able to suffer. And I'd much rather take my chances as a wild bird living freely than as a battery hen.
The former would be infinitely preferable which is why the meat that dp and I are most comfortable with eating meat that we have hunted/shot ourselves.

And you don't have to be an animals right fanatic to care about the welfare of animals. I don't support animal rights but I do support animal welfare.

I'm quite amazed that you, of all people, allow a battery chicken to grace your table. You seem to want the best of everything Xenia so why not better food?

I agree Xenia.

I also purposely ask for eggs from caged hens as well when I go shopping. I wish they would put a chicken density ratio on the egg boxes so I could the most intensively reared. However, despite several appeals to International Association and Members of Battery Killing (I.AM.Bar.King) they continue to fail to do so. Perhaps you will join me in my appeals?

ahhhh I see nothing has changed here in 6 months then

rant 1: I am a ponce and will judge
rant 2: how dare you I am poor
rant 3: well I am veggie and don't give a shit
rant 4: well my children eat chickpeas instead of frankenstein chicken and so should yours unless they are freaks

[repeat]

teehee

perhaps you could put that on YouTube to a hypnotic beat.sure to catch on

Lmao. I think Xenia would make an excellent member of I.AM.Bar.King.

What about chocolatequeen's point that there isn't rooom for enough chickens to live free if we all buy them? Not to mention all the other animals.

Of course that isn't the point is it. The point is that poor people shouldn't be allowed chicken at all

When I was a student I decided that I would start buying free range eggs as soon as I could afford to. And I did. Mind you, I don't eat meat at all, so it's probably less of an issue for me.