to be bl**dy furious that my DD has measles because other parents won't vaccinate?

[elportodelgato]

poor DD is only 11 mo and has horrid measles all over her, full of cold, streaming eyes, diarrhea, very unhappy and sleepy and limp. I am so so for her, but more I am absolutely bloody with idiot parents who won't have the MMR!

The doctor actually told me this morning that the reason it is so prevalent in our area is because of stupid people refusing to vaccinate their children and compromising the immunity of the whole group. So now my LO, who is only 2 months off having the vaccination herself, is really really sick because of other people's stupidity. It's making my blood boil! Do people not realise how dangerous it can be in little babies? And does anyone still seriously believe the so called "research" which claimed a link between MMR and autism? It has been so completely discredited in recent years you would think people would have got over it by now and started vaccinating again

Arrgh!!

Dr Wakefield hasn't been struck off that is yet more total and utter bollocks.

Someone also posted that MMR and BCG are required for school entry in France, this is yet more total bollocks. I live in France and the only vaccine required for school entry is DTP. BCG used to be on the list but isn't anymore, MMR has never been required.

Oh and in harmony with saintly DR WAKEFIELD'S WORK HAS NOT BEEN DISCREDITED. It hasn't even been directly replicated, addressed or challenged. This is more total bollocks.

Hello Pag. I was just about to come and gibber in a corner with you with a bottle of gin in order to stop me posting something I might regret on this disturbing thread.

How about I explain what happened to my eldest daughter so that people can tell me it is a coincidence just like what happened to your son. Then they can tell me that I am also stupid for not vaccinating DD2 (who has the same risk profile). Then perhaps they can make snide comments about how we found ways to help our children using the internet. Oh, wait but they have already and all without knowing anything about our children. Extraordinary!

Dr Wakefield has been charged with professional misconduct by the GMC though - presumably that has some significance.

Oh Beachcomber
The thing is that all you can do is try and tell the truth and keep your composure.

People belive what they choose to at the end of the day and it is incredibly hard for anyone to accept that just maybe, rarely, this jab does make NT babies very severely ASD. If it hadn't happened to me I probably wouldn't want to believe it either.

You can't make people listen if they don't want to. And you cannot stop some people just being vile because they want to.

And btw gin helps

He has been all but crucified and that has some significance, as well.

Nancy66
well perhaps the outcome of the hearings may determine how significant. Or do charges make him guilty?

just feel it's worth pointing out that I can't imagine the GMC would spend over £1million prosecuting a fellow medical professional on a whim.

How CAN you say Wakefield's work hasn't been discredited? Is professional misconduct not erm discrediting his work?

Jayne Donegan (an expert witness in an MMR case) also ended up at the GMC on a fitness to practice charge. The complaints were not upheld, and she has continued to practice.

Unfortunately the transcripts from the GMC are not available in the Wakefiled case, but I find it fascinating that his so called victims (the children) were not allowed to testify. The hearing diaries on Cry Shame, whilst of course biased are detailed, and I can't quite see what they're going to get Wakefield on because he has clearly refuted all accusations (along with Murch and Prof Walker-Smith who are in the dock with him). It would surely be political suicide though for him not to be found guilty of something, so I await the verdict with interest.

Do you know when my DS2 regressed I hadn't even heard of Wakefield.
I found out about him when someone told me, in the midst of my fear and panic, that DS2's total diet changes may be significant and may mean their is a problem with his gut.
They suggested I remove gluten and dairy which I did.
The changes stopped the worst of my sons tantrums and he started using the potty again within a week. He also started sleeping properly which was heaven as he had only been sleeping four hours a night.

Only when reading up why the diet might help did I find out that it sits perfectly with Wakefields theory about gut damage and ASD.

What a strange co-incidence

They can strike him off or run him naked through the town. The diet which arose in part out of his research has helped my sons life imeasurably.

Wakefield is a shoddy, maverick snake oil salesman. I hope he gets struck off and exposed for the money grabbing charlatan that he is.

MMR does not cause autism and if you think it does, you are wrong. It's not any more complicated than that.

I would be furious too OP. Your poor DD - hope she recovers soon.

Well so far he has shown that all charges against him are false. For example he has been accused of not following ethical procedures (he did), or pocketing money (he didn't). From the evidence revealed at the GMC I really don't see what they're going to pin on him (or Murch or Prof Walker-Smith).

Oh dear god. Unfortunately eau the GMC hearing seems to be showing that he didn't grab any money, and that he's not a charlatan. But don't worry yourself with facts now will you.

ROFL at eaudevie....
simple is as simple does

"How CAN you say Wakefield's work hasn't been discredited? Is professional misconduct not erm discrediting his work?"

It CAN be said quite EASILY, since the validity of research has NOTHING to do with the misconduct charges, which are about:

• ordering investigations without pediatric qualifications
• performing colonoscopies and lumbar punctures on children
• purchasing blood samples from children at his son's birthday party

etc.

He has of course been thoroughly shafted. So much mud slung his way that people like yourself believe he has been discredited, his work has been discredited, none of it was correct, and by consequence, parents who refuse MMR are "idiots".

Job done, then.

I'm shocked. People will be saying next that exorcism does not cure autism. Oh dear. Does Dr W's employer in Florida know that yet?

this thread has been helpful in one regard.

I have realised that there are worse things in life than being profoundly autistic.

Things like the accusations about colonscopies turned out to be laughable as well. For example he was accused of not having ethical approval for a research project that included colonoscopies. But he didn't do colonoscopies as part of a research project, they were done for reasons of clinical need, so no research ethical approval was needed etc etc and so on and so forth. My friend was there when he said about the blood samples at a child's party and she said it was obviously a joke. Lots of mud slinging.

Cry Shame is certainly biased. But fascinating. The GMC hearing diaries are quite scary. I am particularly enjoying the correspondence between Brian Deer and the GMC (a new one to me).

There are some who argue that it's worth the risk of some having bad reactions for the sake of the herd immunity. I'd like to ask if it would still be ok if you knew in advance and had the names and little pictures of those who were going to be damaged for the sake of your kids?

You could argue that it works the other way too, but the flaw in that is that those you see as anti mmr are not really anti vaccination. They would mostly like the singles and they would like the government to study the problem and find out the cause once and for all so that everyone could be vaccinated. The government however would prefer to stick their fingers in their ears since this is cheaper.

Even if tomorrow someone proved that autism was caused by fluoride in the water or sunspots it wouldn't change the validity of what wakefield said or what current anti-mmr people are saying. They want to know how to prevent these devastating consequences and they are not willing to risk their childs life to reduce the small risk to yours when there are alternatives which would safeguard everyone.

Well quite onagar. If someone explained to me tomorrow that they had a test now which could show exactly why ds1 regressed, that it was nothing to do with his immune system and his muscle spasms were not signs of an underlying disorder but were in fact such and such. And that they could guarantee that vaccinations would not cause any problems at all in ds2 and ds3 then of course I would have them. Unfortunately no-one is saying that, and increasing bodies of research is showing that there are various ways in which vaccination can be implicated in triggering autism.

Eaudevie, thank you for that clear and incisive argument. it's all so clear to me now. You should consider working for the goverment as they need people like you. Damian McBride's job is vacant for a start.

Onagar

All vaccines carry a risk, none of then are 100% safe. It isnt just the MMR. The only reason to have them is if you feel the benefits outweigh the risks.

saintlydamemrsturnip, oh I don't think someone will prove MMR wasn't implicated as the evidence is mounting up. Just pointing out that it's not some kind of strange anti-mmr prejudice.

yes yabu.