When do you accept your child has different morals to you and start to support them in that?

[gigglinggoblin]

Have been wondering how to phrase a question because I know it will get tangled up in a load of rubbish as threads tend to on here so this is the long and short of it.

My morals tell me one thing. Ds is 8 and disagrees.

When do you support your child in doing stuff you feel is wrong? Its not illegal, wont get him in trouble with the police.

I have only read the first page, would it be possible to involve your DC in cooking your food with you and experimenting with more veggie food? Then when he's got the hang of that say that he can perhaps make his own s/w's with ham or chicken in for instance. That way you're not handling the food, it should be too expensive and he's able to try it out and decide what he would like. Compromise of some sort.

Thanks for all the opinions, it is really helpful to hear other points of view.

I find it very interesting that people do not like me describing meat as seeping or oozing. When you cook meat you cook it til the juices run clear. You should have it on the bottom shelf of the fridge because otherwise the juices may drip. Of course it seeps and oozes, its just that meat eaters prefer to say it has juices. And it is flesh. And its not in the best shape is it? What does dead flesh do other than rot? So before having a go at me being repulsed by it, think about that. Its all accurate, and I find it disgusting. People have different thresholds, meat crosses mine. The cruelty side of the meat industry I find upsetting but the thing that makes me feel physically ill is the thought of eating somethings flesh (or handling it, smelling it etc).
I do agree with the poster who said they respect people who know what the meat industry is and choose to eat it anyway. But call a spade a spade!

The reason I am posting is because I want other peoples views on what is reasonable. I dont want to control him. But I have morals and I would prefer him to share them so I wont encourage him to eat meat. I dont want to cook it, thats my choice and I dont think thats really controlling, as I said he eats meat at cafes and for school dinner, I dont have to agree to that if I want to control him. His dad was very abusive and has tried to control me in many ways since we split. This is just the latest. Ds used to eat veggie food very happily, its not that he doesnt like it he just wants to please his dad because his dad makes his feel guilty about not seeing him all the time (dont get me started on why that is!)

Anyway I have talked to him and we are negotiating a compromise - he has to eat more fruit and veg and try things more willingly and I will buy him stuff he wants. He doesnt have to just eat veggie and I dont have to cook meat. Sound fair?

Vegetables rot too. I could be specific, but don't want to upset any stomachs.

I would call what you have a phobia since it goes beyond not wanting to eat it. I don't want to eat baby poo, but I can deal with it without getting ill. Having said that I wouldn't want to criticise you for that or try and talk you into thinking meat was wonderful. For reasons of taste, principle or whatever you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

My only point would be that your solution should play down the importance of the choice as much as possible. I worry that children who think too much about the source of the food may develop issues about it which could cause them problems later. Whether they became anti-meat or anti-veg is just as bad to me if it means they have trouble eating.

It sounds like you have found a way now which is good news.

agree with emkana on this one he must realise that you are free to choose just as you encourage free thinking (to a point) and he must respect your feelings too. my dd is 8 too and we have supported many things in the last year (she's a great thinker) among which we have had: Atheism (which lasted till xmas), buddhism (which was good for the 40min meditation session every night - not so keen on the £40 bonsi tree which only lasted 2 weeks but thats another story) currently dd is reading Darwins origin of the species don't mind this as can't see that it will cost me any money for accessories we have also had the veggie thing and last week dd decided that we shouldn't flush the toilet chain cos it uses 10ltrs of water per flush needless to say we drew the line at that one - I would say roll with it, can understand how you feel though perhaps suggest that if ds would like meat he could have it with dad or school lunch that way he feels he's got a little freedom but also recognises your stance too.

Why can't an 8-year-old fry his own chop? I certainly wouldn't do it if you find it disgusting, but I wouldn't forbid him to do his own. My 8yo would be perfectly capable of going down to the shop and buying himself a chop and frying it. If he's old enough to make the decision, he's old enough to do the work.

Anyway, your compromise sounds good to me. If you refuse to make an issue of it, then his dad is wasting his time.

Onager - many Muslim friends of mine are repulsed at the idea of pork. Not just eating it, but having it around, being exposed to it in any shape or form (including live pigs). Would you be quite as quick to label them as 'phobic'?

If I am phobic about it I dont think I am any more than 90% of the population, its just most people prefer to ignore the truth of it. Could you kill a baby lamb? Cut a pigs throat? Eat a worm? Would you find a dismembered limb a joy to behold? I just see meat as part of a creature and I dont want to eat creatures. I know vegetables rot but its not really the same, I am happy to pick an apple from a tree but would not be happy to shoot a cat. If you are happy to do those things thats fine and your decision. If not then you are just ignoring the truth of what you are eating. (And by you I mean one, so dont be offended, I am not really having a go at you).

I agree with you. And I also see buying meat as buying into the industry you detest. That's why, in your position OP, I wouldn't be buying him the meat, even if he did cook it himself. If his dad chooses to do so, then tat's up to him.

Not phobic at all imo. That's just silly.

"If I am phobic about it I dont think I am any more than 90% of the population, its just most people prefer to ignore the truth of it."

But that's the point - you're having a physical reaction to something which most people don't even bother to think about.

And personally, I do know where it comes from. I like meat which has been well treated, free range, fed well. Many vegetarians choose not to eat meat on principle, which is fine, but from your reaction you're having quite a physical revulsion to it, which prevents you even having it in the fridge.

I was thinking about you today. I have a colleague who has a food phobia. About something completely ridiculous - ketchup and sauces in jars. She hates the crusty bit which can form around the top. Now, of course, no-one really likes that but they just wipe it off and get on with it. She feels physically sick if it's on her food. Of course, she doesn't need to eat it, just like people don't need to eat meat. But to take it to the lengths where she panics, quite literally, at the prospect of touching it, is a problem. Because she stops her kids from eating it as well. Now of course, they don't need ketchup in their diet. But that fear of otherwise edible food, and such a revulsion towards it, I don't think is a good thing.

Look, I don't care whether you eat the stuff or not, but this is about your relationship with your son and his attitude to food, and whether you stop him eating meat in your house, and your decision is being based on your physical revulsion, not just your principles about eating and caring for animals. From what I've read.

Sorry for going on a bit. Just, as I say, I was thinking about it today. I hope things move on for you.

It's not a question of morals is it?
You can't make someone a vegetarian if they want to eat meat, you can have a no meat rule in YOUR house, but that may or may not make him a vegetarian.
You don't want to cook meat so just buy cooked meat for him or tell him he can have meat at his Dads.
If you object to the way meat is reared, bred hung etc go to a reputable butcher - although you may not want to do that as there'd be a lot of meat to repulse you.
I'm actually playing a meat obsessed farmer this weekend so have just learnt all about cuts of meat and the way to get top quality meat. I've even made up a song for it...

GG personally (as a comitted carnivore) I don't think you should have to compromise such a firmly held conviction. I can understand that everything to do with dead animal flesh revolts you and that is fair enough.

I am so sorry that you have an ex who is encouraging your DS to eat "only meat" as that is clearly deeply unhealthy, both psychologically and physically. A really bad situation.

At 8 your child is still your child, your house, your rules. If all he wanted to eat was hula hoops, coke and sherbert dipdabs you wouldn't have it, so why should you have this. It's no different.

Having said all that, if he's not eating, that's really not good. I see that you have agreed a compromise which sounds very good, but am sorry that you have had to do this due to your horrible ex.

I would like to draw a comparison, for those who are saying that GG is being extreme and why shouldn't her DS have some meat.

If your child came home with a live chicken, and said they wanted it for supper, would you be entirely cheerful about dispatching it, plucking it and butchering it?

What about freshly preparing dishes involving brains, heart or other offal?

Most people have a limit, at which they go "bleurgh" and think it's revolting. Mine would be, say, monkey meat or bushmeat.

The thought would make me quite ill, and morally I do not agree with eating these meats. But many people do. If my DD came home and said she wanted a monkey brain casserole, I would not cook it for her. And quite right too.

That is why I feel so sorry for GG's quandry - she is being forced to do something she sees as utterly revolting by her arse of an ex - and it is just wrong.

I appreciate your opinion Mary but I still dont agree! I think its awful to say its ok not to think about it, and I notice you didnt say you would be fine shooting a cat or eating a worm. Closing your eyes to things is how truly dreadful things happen for so long. I dont think its a good thing to just pretend everything is fine rather than have beliefs. It makes me feel ill when I think of people being tortured or children being abused. Of course I try not to think about it because I cant do anything about that. But it doesnt mean its ok and if I just dont think about it then it wont matter. I dont eat meat because to me the thought of eating flesh is repulsive. I guess we just have to agree to disagree - you dont understand why I would be veggie and I have no idea why you dont find it disgusting. Although I come from a family of meat eaters I have never understood why people look at an animal and think its a good idea to kill it for food unnecessarily.

BBBB thats just the thing - if you eat chicken you are responsible for killing it so you may as well kill it yourself. I dont see the difference between eating a cow and eating a monkey. We all have lines that are drawn in different places.

Am very glad I didnt say why I was asking the question first

I have a beautiful 23 year old as well as my litle one. My eldest daughter became a veggie at the age of 6 and has not touched meat or fish since. (I blame the Little Mermaid for the fish thing) but as a 6 year old she asked what the dead animal was on her plate and was told the truth.
She is now a healthy 5 foot10 size 10 so it has not stunted her growth as her gran said.
Kids can have morals and keep them

I will be telling DD where meat comes from, in fact I've already started even though she doesn't understand yet.

I'm sure I could butcher the animals I eat, and think I'd be OK with killing most of them, although cows are quite big and scary...

If I "had to" I would have no problem at all.

I hate people who "can't eat anything that looks like an animal" or looks like a part of an animal, it just seems so wrong and disrespectful. Closing your eyes to the reality of what you are doing.

And things like those new popcorn chicken things make me feel sick - there's something deeply unpleasant to reducing a piece of animal to be like a packet of crisps.

So I have my morals surrounding these foods as well - and when I don't stick to them I know I am being a hypocrite. All the people gorging away without a thought for what they're actually consuming is something that frankly i find depressing.

In a way I feel I have more in common with GG than with someone who woofs down KFC, burgers and breaded nondescript meats every night without a passing thought for what they're actually eating animal-wise.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant didn't it!

Hey GG, just thought... your son could be using the whole food thing to display how unhappy he is about the split. Not exactly being manipulative in a mean way, but maybe this is a way he can show he's unhappy?
Obviously I have no idea of your situation.
It's just a bit odd how he is strong enough to starve himself and is making such an issue. You sound like a very reasonable person as he can eat meat outside the house and you're considering buying ready cooked. If I was you I'd be tempted to go along with what he wants without making it too much of an issue so it doesn't lead to any weird food phobias later.
I hope it all works out for you.

You are right char, he is unhappy about the split and he feels guilty if he doesnt do what his dad wants because he doesnt see him as much as he sees me. Ex puts a lot of pressure on them abut the split and is constantly telling them we might get back together even tho it has been over 8 YEARS and we both have new partners and children with those partners! Ds doesnt even remember us being together. No idea how his girlfriend feels about him saying this stuff, apparently when we get back together she can have my dh. Dh thinks not haha.

But he is very strong willed and I really admire that about him. I just wish he would point that will in another direction! I will let him have the meat because I dont want the phobias and it will make ds feel he is showing his dad loyalty so hopefully that will make him happier. He has been really good about eating fruit and veg since we had a talk even tho I havent bought any meat yet.

Where can you buy cooked meat that is as cruelty free as you can get? Looked in Asda but didnt see naything on packs, is Sainsburys better?

i have obviously come late to this.
at 8, i would not allow dc to eat meat in my house if i was a vegetarian. actually, if i was strong enough in my beliefs, i would t allow it to be eaten in my house by anyone of any age. but at 8 it is particularly tough, as i would not cook it. nor would i buy it.

I've come late to this too, but find it really interesting. I've been on both sides. I was 10 when I became (kind of) vegetarian - I still eat fish, but I haven't had chicken or red meat since then. It was purely for ethical reasons - I was a well-informed child and I knew about slaughter methods and factory farming. I would prefer not to dwell on the fish. I still feel VERY guilty! I actually really loved meat. Family meals became a mish-mash - we would have straight forward menus where it was easy to change bits for vege alternatives (although the range is so much better nowadays). So my mum did alter how she cooked to accommodate my beliefs, despite my young age. I was lucky mum and my sister soon stopped eating red meat too (her sister, my aunty, was a vegetarian animal rights activist who played a large part in shaping my views and my mum shared her perspective on a lot of things).

When DD was born, I raised her vegetarian. Her Dad and I split when she was small. He didn't eat meat because he was really faddy with his food back then (we were young) but he does now. His mum has always encouraged her to eat meat as I don't think they agree with anything I do - a can of worms we'll not venture into here. I did not see the point of giving her meat when I would not normally cook it or eat it. She never asked me to though.

My family has changed over 10 years - I am now married with a 4.5 month old son. DD now eats meat whenever she is out and about and wants to eat it - her choice and in spite of my beliefs (I've always allowed her to make her own mind up). Her dad's mum is giving her pork chops every time she sees her now! She also discovered chicken fajitas. These are the one thing I will buy and DH cooks them. Given that I have been veggie since I was 10, I would not feel safe cooking anything like that, although I don't think it would bother me that much to do it.

I now face the question about whether to raise DS as a vege too as now his dad and sister aren't and I'm in the minority. I think I will though (ever awkward!); if he did eat meat it would have to be organically farmed, free range and humanely slaughtered (if that isn't a contradiction in terms) and that would probably get quite costly. I still do the majority of the meal planning, shopping and cooking - DH is easy-going, he likes vege food and gets meat if we go out or have a takeaway.

After waffling on in this post, essentially your house your rules - I let DD do what she wanted when she was with her dad or at parties, but I wasn't going to buy it or cook it myself. It doesn't sound like you are stopping him from eating meat, just not at yours. And, FWIW, it is a bit disappointing when they don't share your values. DD has made her decision to eat meat at the same age that I made mine not to. And I know her dad's family have been instrumental in this, but I don't want to pressure her too or upset her. I will continue to do what I do and she will find her own way. Each to their own at the end of the day.

Good luck with it all.

My post is HUGE!

Carried away, moi?

Dh & I are veggie, dc can choose to eat meat when out or at friends' houses, or to ask for ham/cooked chicken in the supermarket to have in sandwiches etc.

Meat doesn't bother me tho' - ex-publican, run many a carvery - so I don't have the problem of being revolted or upset. I do take the line that I'm the Head Chef & I get to say what I cook!

I think 'my house my rules' is the sensible way to go. My worry otherwise would be: xp (maliciously) & ds (pushing boundaries with you/trying to please dad) will have won a battle - what's the next thing going to be that you're expected to give in on?

I'd stick to my guns in a very matter of fact way - if he wants to eat meat, fine, but so long as you are in charge of the catering, you won't be buying it, giving it fridge space, or cooking it.

GigglingGoblin - it is not a phobia. It's a normal reaction for many a vegetarian (though not all of course!). Only 'meat-eaters-in-denial' would say that. My Ex once (and only once) put some raw, dripping, steak in the fridge on a plate, the plate tipped and the blooded dripped down and when I opened the fridge I just burst into tears (admittedly I was tired, stressed and emotionally overwrought at the time, but even if I hadn't been, I would not have been impressed!).

BBBB - I can respect a meat eater like you (I'd still like you to 'see the light' but hey... )

Stripy - it was a great post