When do you accept your child has different morals to you and start to support them in that?

[gigglinggoblin]

Have been wondering how to phrase a question because I know it will get tangled up in a load of rubbish as threads tend to on here so this is the long and short of it.

My morals tell me one thing. Ds is 8 and disagrees.

When do you support your child in doing stuff you feel is wrong? Its not illegal, wont get him in trouble with the police.

you say -

"His dad has put so much pressure on him to only eat meat"

"He is really good at starving himself."

yikes!

your DC sounds very strong minded, so don't make it an issue or it will become more than about food - if it isn't already.

When he returns from his dad you said:
"for eg he had a massive rant the other day about how much he hated veggie hotdogs - he had just been with his dad."

This could be more about control and, as others have said, controlling the loyalty towards his dad, who I guess he doesn't live with?

(speaking as a veggie with meat eating kids) I would say absolutely do not make a big deal of this.

As others have said - buy cooked chicken, perhaps make pizzas with pepparami on, how about chicken soups (you can buy etc) if you can't stomach real meat, but be low key about it if you can.

He is old enough to understand that you don't like handling meat and old enough too to perhaps talk about a compromise with you - eg meat on two days a week, lovely (!) veggie stuff the others.

But this could all be about him working out his connection with his dad - and eating his 'dad's' food may be a sign of that.

I'm not a veggie but I don't particularly like raw meat/fish. Just thought I'd pass on some of my tips. If it's going to be that difficult for you then I think that maybe you should stand by your principles (if that's what they are).

I can kind of understand what you mean chesess but if I talked about eating a seeping oozing lump of rotting flesh then would your mouth be watering? While I realise dolly didnt say it that way thats what it means to me! (again dolly no offence meant, I dont want you to think i am having a go at you!). So no food phobias other than being really disgusted by the thought of eating flesh.

I think low key is the way to go, get him involved in preparering his meals so he can handle the meat and try to get him to compromise on eating veg.

Thanks very much for all posts and opinions, this is really hard for me and its so helpful to bounce ideas off other people

Only read page one but....am going to bring my son up veggie with caveat (for his father) that if he wants to eat meat when he is old enough to decide for himself he can. I'm assuming that he will be like me and my brothers and be repulsed by it but perhaps not. I'd see 8 as old enough, unfortunately. However, you absolutely do not have to cook it for him. If he wants to eat meat with his father he can, but at home, he has what you cook!

But you associate meat with words such as "seeping oozing rotting" ? ie unhygienic?

I'm sorry, I do realise this is hard for you. I'm being picky. Have a good night's sleep, chick.

gg - if it's a case of morals then how is having cooked meat in the fridge any more acceptable than raw?

It seems that it is more a case of asthetics. Still, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be hard for you. A bit like changing a manky nappy or, heaven forbid, using a loo brush .

Goodnight. I remain unoffended.

GG tough one isn't it... when really he's just a pawn in the game his Dad is playing.

I think you need to talk to him (not to say you haven't already of course!) about his relationship with his Dad - that he doesn't need to 'be' him, to be loved by him etc etc

Then I would tell him that he's not having meat in the house because you believe it's not right and when he is old enough to buy and cook his own meat, in his own house, then he can make that decision.

I think you should re-explain why you think it's wrong to eat meat and explain that is why you will not do it.

I have to say though, I strongly disagree with the person (sorry, back about page one and can't remember your name!) who said if he's old enough to discuss it, he's old enough to decide... so.... um, if he can talk about eating only chocolate (or whatever, was going to say drink beer but knew someone would say - but that's illegal) he can do it.... hmmm thought not.

GG also just realised that we all pretty much have done what you didn't want us to do - debate the 'issue' rather than the question!!! Sorry

I think 8 is too young to be allowed to do whatever they think is ok (if not illegal) because they will do what they want rather than what is right iyswim but it totally depends on the issue at hand whether it would be ok with me or not. If it was the other way around I would argue for him to be able to eat a veggie diet though, as that isn't hurting anyone/anything else and wouldn't be going against anyone's morals...

If you're veggie in your house then keep it that way- he can eat meat in other contexts: no biggie imo, but you shouldn't have to facilitate or prepare it. What your ex does is up to him. If you take the emotional heat out of it by being matter of fact, it should cool the not eating thing right down, I think.

FWIW myself and DP are veggie (except DP eats fish). As BitOfFun suggests, we intend to make our house veggie/fishy but leave it up to DS what to eat when he's outside the home/not with us. I reckon this way, he'll get to know how to eat a healthy veggie diet, and be familiar with the arguments for it. But I want to avoid it being a big deal if he's in a situation where only meat is on offer. If he wants to eat meat I'd rather it wasn't so much of a big deal that he felt like he as betraying us, or worse someone gives him meat and tells him to lie to his parents, or worst of all we enforce vegetarianism, and he rebels come his teenage years and goes ultra meat-head (happened to one of my school mates!)

I think it's OK to have different views on this one. I would use it as an opportunity to discuss these ideas - although having said that, I'd really find it hard to resist going into one about how there's pooh in the burgers ...

You do all know there's pooh in the burgers, right?

There's pooh in the burgers!

I agree with bitoffun.. I would not cook meat for him, but allow him to keep his own meat and eat it, maybe in a special tupperware box he could have some ham or cooked chicken that he adds to his dinner if he wants or to his sandwiches. So you are going halfway to meet him but not compromising on your own beliefs, no reason you should have to cook meat for him imo...

How about a compromise? He can eat meat at home BUT he has to eat the rest of the meal with it - i.e., he gets meat and eats the veggies on his plate too. It will not kill you to find some meat you can bear to cook. You may not like it but you can get over it should you wish to. It will not kill him to eat the healthy fruit and vegetables you are giving him. He may not like it but he will get over it should he wish to. Give and take!

p.s., Not trying to make light of your dislike of having meat around. But he is doing a huge 'I can't possibly' fuss about eating veggies and for you to make a huge 'I can't possibly' fuss about having meat in the house is just setting you two at loggerheads. Maybe start off with cold and see how you progress?

it's not morally wrong to eat meat that has been humanely produced though - I speak as a long term vegan turned vegetarian turned occasional omnivore with children who have moved through all those phases in their own time and way

we've evolved to eat meat, even as a militant veggie in my youth I recognised that we don't have four stomachs like a cow!

I really wouldn't get into a power struggle over this or any food issue, it's a great opportunity to involve him in menu planning and learn more about food groups and so on

That's a great idea! Encouraging menu planning, learning about food groups and how to cook the meat he wants to eat (and how to make sure it comes from properly cared for animals) sounds a really good way to go!

Hmm. As others have said, being non-veggie doesn't require him to eat only meat, so he should be able to accept veggie food as part of his diet (morally, at least).

Perhaps with summer approaching, you could let him cook his own meat on a disposable BBQ, that way it doesn't even have to come in the house. You could also get cold cuts of meat or pieces of rotisserie chicken for him if you can stomach the idea of those.

I think YABU to tell him that your morals override his, but YANBU to insist that he eats what everyone else is eating unless he wants to cook it himself.

I completely understand your revulsion to cooking meat. As a veggie of 20 years, I have never cooked meat and even if I wanted to, I would find it difficult to trust myself to cook it safely. I certainly wouldn't want to taste it to see if it was edible.

My dcs can eat meat outside of the house but as I do most of the cooking, we are a veggie house. I think if I was in your situation, I would do as you are suggesting - buy cold meat that my dcs could open or prepare by themselves. I don't think 8 is too young to start to learn how to prepare food for themselves. I think I would also try to give them a feeling of being in control over what they eat. As children go into adolescence, I think it can be potentially very dangerous for children to get their sense of control from issues around food.

dd announced she was veggie at about 6. this was all good and fine and i supported her in it as much as i was willing.

that meant that some meanls were a traditional meat n two veg for everyone else but she just got two veg.

other days she got a veggie sausage or something.

it lasted a year. until burger kind tempted her too much.

my point it - i think its fine - nay brilliant to be seen to support these decisions.

however it goes like this
" That you have decided to eat meat is a decision you are old enough to make. However that i have decided not to eat meat is a decision i took many years ago - just like you have done.

I have no problem with you eating meat when you are out with your friends or at your dads, its fine and doesn't bother me one bit. However at home i don't like the smell or touch of it and so i will not be cooking it. So at home, the choice is yours eat what i cook - or don't eat"

I am veggie with a carnivorous DS and DH. I occasionally cook organic cruelty-free meat for DH and DS, and they can eat what they want when we're out.

DS spends 2 days a week with his father who is also veggie,but won't buy or cook meat for him.

If your DS insisted he would only eat crisp butties or jaffa cakes or chips with ketchup at home (all RL examples of pickiness from fellow veggie mums BTW!) you would have to put your foot down, and this is no different. Sounds like he's picking up some bad attitude from his father, TBH.

You need to talk about nutrition with him and point out that people don't "just eat meat" without eating veg, fruit, pasta, bread etc.

If you can bear to have meat in the fridge, try him with the cold cooked stuff and encourage him to start making sarnies etc. for himself. He isn't too young to learn to cook!

"GG tough one isn't it... when really he's just a pawn in the game his Dad is playing."

i'm not sure that this is strictly true though. i'd agree that yes the father should be more diplomatic and keep his opinions (which for all we know might be honestly held ratehr than just an attempt to wind up the mother as many seem to be assuming) about vegetarian meals to himself, or not be as inflammatory and just say "oh well i prefer xyz meat to vegetarian food but there's nothing wrong with veggie food"

but surely the exact same could be said about the op and the picture she is trying to paint of the fathers dietary habits. meat is banned from the house, saying it makes her physically vomit, putting restrictions on what meat would and would not be allowed in the house, having to come in pre-cooked to be eaten cold and certainly not allowed in the fridge along side her veggie food.describing it as "oozing,seeping" etc

so while i agree that it's the op's call to make, insinuating the father is using the kid as a pawn in a game or trying to brainwash him against veggie food is a bit ridiculous unless you also believe the op is doing the same.

Interesting conundrum, and interesting thread.

Here's how it works in our house:

I am veggie. Dh is not. The children are veggie while I am in control of what they eat. If we are out or they are at a friend's house they can eat meat. I do 100% of the food shopping and cooking in this house therefore it is entirely my decision whether or not I cook meat. Very occasionally I am feeling magnanamous and do them a Sunday roast or spag bol and they are appropriately grateful (!), the rest of the time we eat a healthy vegetarian diet. If dh were motivated to cook meat he would be very welcome to do so. When dh fancies meat but I do not wish to cook it we go out.

The moral bit: As they get older my children will be completely free to choose whether or not they cook / eat meat, BUT they will have to make an informed choice. They will not be allowed to eat meat "but not really think about where it comes from". Many people are absolutely fine with the meat indusrty, and whilst I disagree, I respect that choice. I have no respect and no time for people who bury their head in the sand about it, and I will not give my children that option.

OP, at 8 he should be allowed to choose what he eats. You certainly don't have to cook anything you don't want to. He should make an informed choice, and you must respect that whatever it is.

Personally, I don't think serving him meat is going to solve anything.

You need to sit down and talk about how balanced diet includes everything, not "only meat". Then you can move onto how you can reach a compromise - ie he can make himself a ham sandwich at yours, eat meat at school, in restaurants and at his dad's but how you can not cook it for him because of your beliefs. Explain that you are not forcing your beliefs onto him and how by eating a wide variety of foods he can make his own decision about eating meat or being veggie and that many people eat both meat and vegetarian options as part of a full and varied diet.

Explain that you will not force your beliefs about eating meat onto him but he can not force you to abandon your beliefs and cook him meat. ie subtly hint that his father is forcing him to believe something rather than allowing him to make up his own mind.

I never ate meat until I was in my late teens/20s...when I was younger I just didn't like the taste but as I got older 8/9 I had a moral reasoning behind why I chose not to eat meat...I read about how they were treated and kept and felt it was morally reprehensable..

my mum just cooked a slightly different meal for me...I still can't stomach a steak or chops...but I cook them rather well

briefly, my view is you buy and cook only what you are morally ok with. So you continue as you were. Your ds can eat meat if he wishes to do so, just now under your roof, or at your expense, ie should expect you to buy him a burger when out & about. I'd also explain clearly exactly why you believe what you do