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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

or am I perhaps being sexist instead

33 replies

BalloonSlayer · 20/04/2009 09:23

There was a cartoon in the Sunday Times of Jacqui Smith, depicting her as naked but for fishnet stockings, showing breasts. It was not a flattering portrayal.

OK only a cartoon.

Given that part of what the cartoon was lampooning about her is the adult movies scandal which is not exactly her fault I thought it was pretty unfair. But I found the depiction of her incredibly, skin-crawlingly offensive. If it had been me I would have felt completely humiliated by it.

BUT - and here is the AIBU/S bit - politicians are often depcited semi-nude by satirical cartoonists, aren't they? John Major was always shown in a giant pair of grey pants by the guy in the Guardian, wasn't he?

Maybe I think it's so awful as it showed a nipple? Or am I being sexist and am only upset because she is a woman?

OP posts:

SusieDerkins · 20/04/2009 09:26

I'm glad you posted this.

I was really shocked by that cartoon - it was really humiliating and offensive in a very puerile, sexist and not at all funny way. It made her out to be some fat slag/readers wives type character.

squeaver · 20/04/2009 09:26

I agree BS. I saw that cartoon and thought it was horrendous, and I'm no great fan of Jacqui Smith.

Yes, you had Major in his underpants but I can't imagine a male MP being depicted in such a degrading way.

And I am not one to usually suffer from a sense of humour failure, believe me.

myredcardigan · 20/04/2009 09:36

I seem to remember the JM underpants as being huge baggy grey things therefore no sexualisation going on. I also thing to portray a woman topless without her concent is down right offensive. I know it's only a cartoon but the concept is he same as imposing a picture of her head on someone else's naked body.

I found it offensive and I'm really not easily offended.

YANBU

Disenchanted3 · 20/04/2009 09:39

I haven't seen it but it sounds awful! Was there really a cartoon nip on show?

I remember the JM cartoons of him in huge baggy boxers ... not really the same is it? Unless there was one of him that I missed in skin tight leopard scanties with the tip of his nob peeping out?

Disenchanted3 · 20/04/2009 09:39

I think papers have got no respect for women full stop

AliceMumma · 20/04/2009 09:41

I havnt seen it but its kinda sinking to new lows isnt it...

squeaver · 20/04/2009 09:44

judge for yourself

I'm a big admirer of Gerald Scarfe, usually

Disenchanted3 · 20/04/2009 09:47

vile.

solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 20/04/2009 09:49

Doesn't bother me. I think politicians who have their hands in the till or whatever are fair game for satirists.

LadyGlencoraPalliser · 20/04/2009 09:50

Have you read the comments posted underneath?
I feel ill.

SusieDerkins · 20/04/2009 10:20

I need to remind myself that the Sunday Times is from the same stable as the Sun and News of the World, neither of which are known for their enlightened approach to women....

BigBellasBeerBelly · 20/04/2009 10:24

Hmm not sure. I have seen political cartoons depicting naked men with their nobs out, I'm sure of it...

SusieDerkins · 20/04/2009 10:27

Really? Naked male politicians with their nobs out in a sexual pose?

BigBellasBeerBelly · 20/04/2009 10:28

Definitely nobs out and rolls of fat...

I'm sure I recall someone being depicted in fishnets etc as well.

i have had a quick google and can't find anything - this would have been years ago though, and no idea which paper...

SusieDerkins · 20/04/2009 10:31

Would love to know what words you googled!

PadDad · 20/04/2009 10:37

I also found it disturbing but reminded myself that there is a long tradition of savage satirical political cartoons -- many of them involving the politician shown as naked. Many of them are showing male MPs in a VERY degraded fashion.

So on the one hand it's just treating her the same as the others. On the other, because there isn't a tradition of seeing female politicians depicted like this, it does stand out as unusual.

The context is key: It wasn't her that rented the porn films, and we live in a world of over-sexualised female imagery. Because of that context, I think it went too far --- just.

The Daily Show's publication AMERICA-- THE BOOK showed all 9 Supreme Court judges as naked, male and female, baggy and wrinkled.

Is anyone more bothered by the wrinkles than the nudity itself?

mayorquimby · 20/04/2009 11:59

well over here in irelad a couple of weeks ago we had an artist put up a poster of our prime minister depicted in the nude, rolls of fat knobs out etc in the national gallery.
when the press officers complained etc everyone ccused him of having a sense of humour failure, so i don't see why it should be any different for a female politician.
if you wouldn't be offended by a cartoonist/satirist targetting a male politician in this way then you shouldn't be offended simply because they have targetted a female on this occassion. if you'd be offended regardless of gender then fair enough

Mumcentreplus · 20/04/2009 12:13

A Satirist is a humorist who uses ridicule ,irony and sarcasm sometimes with cruelty...so no surprise tbh

seeker · 20/04/2009 12:15

I've written a letter of complaint. It's in my bag. I'll let you know what happens - assuming I remember to post it!

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 20/04/2009 14:12

Ahh, I saw that MayorQuimby but I didn't realise it showed his willy, sorry, a willy. The Times obviously didn't want to print the whole picture of that one .

That's the answer to the question I was asking - do male politicians get this sort of treatment?

Although . . . the bending over bare-arsed in fishnets does appear to be a sexual pose, ie inviting penetration? IIRC the Irish PM was just eating something?

OP posts:

Rindercella · 20/04/2009 14:31

Saw it yesterday and thought it was very offensive. The trouble for Jacqui Smith now is that the porn movie fiasco will always follow her, regardless of the fact that this was the one thing she was actually not responsible for.

Horrible cartoon. And very unfunny.

BigBellasBeerBelly · 20/04/2009 14:37

Do you know despite desperate googling I have been unable to find a cartoon depiction of a single politicans willy.

Obviously this is a huge disappointment...

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 20/04/2009 14:44

And also . . . the Irish PM picture was in a gallery. When I realised this morning that the cartoon was by Gerald Scarfe I thought that, given his fame and notoriety, perhaps I wouldn't have felt it so offensive if it had been in a gallery. A lot of his stuff is pretty harsh.

I think my issue with it is not that Scarfe drew it but that the Sunday Times printed it as a "political cartoon."

I also feel a letter coming on but have not got my eloquent hat on so it might have to wait till tomorrow. Not that I am ever eloquent but all I can think of at the mo is blah blah inappropriate blah blah appalled blah blah supposed to be a serious newspaper and so on.

OP posts:

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 20/04/2009 15:01

OK there's this but Major had kind of deserved it...

OP posts:

myredcardigan · 20/04/2009 15:13

You see, BS, I don't find that JM one offensive, in fact it's rather funny. If the JS one was the same,I wouldn't find it tacky either so I'm not being sexist.

I think that it's because it's so grotesquely in you face and the fact that she's bending over with a nipple on show. Not only is there nothing on show in the JM one but there's no sexualisation either. It's just a piss take which I'm sure even JM laughed at.

IMO, they're just not in the same league when it comes to distaste. And as I said, the JM one is actually funny.

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