To have a sneaky birthday "tea" for my little nephew?

[deanychip]

Because he is wetting himself so my sis has decided to "punish" him by not allowing him to go to any parties NOR to have a birthday party for himself in a few weeks?

She has emptied his bedroom of all toys.

He is going to be 7.

she says he is lazy.

I was going to ask to have him for the day, take him, ds and my niece out, them make some sarnies, cakes and jelly for them...

Am i undermining her OR am i (which i think that i am) saving the poor little bugger from her evil.

BTW he has only EVER had one party, i have always done him a tea party because she just does not get the importance of the party for children sadly, she is not the maternal type.

I don't think anyone would say you are not doing your best deanychip. If you weren't, your DN wouldn't have such a fab time over at your place. That is totally to your credit.

Why not call NSPCC and take it from there.

Obviously, you have turned out to be a great mum despite your childhood.

But your DN might not get that chance.

I know people who have grown up in the same circumstances as your nephew and believe me, the impact of a childhood like the one your nephew deals with every day is devastating. It can blight someone's whole life. I do not speak lightly.

Please listen to the people who say 'I wish someone had stuck up for me when I was that little boy or girl' and still feel angry about it now, they know what it's like to long for someone to take charge and stand up to the bully who's supposed to be the person who loves and nutures them and instead makes every day miserable.

You're a responsible, loving adult in a position to help. Probably the person who is best placed to help in fact. Please do something.

Have you pointed out to your sister that the school are going to start asking questions with regard to the wetting, if they don't feel she is tackling the problem? Would the thought that school might contact SS make her start to listen to advice from you?

Deanychip, I realise I'm being a bit emotive and not very practical - this thread has really pushed some buttons.

As I'm sure you have realised people do get very upset about this sort of thing. I think you were absolutely right to post though.

I think princess and Seuss have offered some good, practical advice.

Anotehr practical suggestion - are the teachers at your DNs school aware of your close relationship? Is talking to them a possibility?

Often people have concerns but are reluctant to bring them up unless someone gives them an opportunity, IYSWIM?

Have the school mentioned anything at all? If it is only happening at school then your sister should really be communicating with them to work out why - even if it did turn out to be laziness they could help by prompting him to go to the toilet (although very much doubting it is laziness). Do you ever pick your dn up so you could casually ask?

Im not sure what the school have said, she picks him up every day now.

I am sure that she has spoken to them about this problem.
I will ask my mum about it, she may know.

It's good your dn has you and your family. I'm not sure what you can do if your sis won't listen to anyone - could you do some research and print some info off to give her, saying something like 'I saw this and thought it was interesting...' I'm sure she'll probably take it and rip it up but I think I would give anything a go if it meant getting her to listen/take some advice.

oooh actually that makes sense and i think that she would read research, i really think that she would.
What a FAB idea, th
anks Seus, thanks, im going to do that about the wetting.

Hi Deanychip. You must be going through hell trying to figure out what to do for the best of everyone concerned.

If you phone the http://www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvice/helpandadvicehub_wdh45208.html NSPCC Child Protection Helpline, they will be happy to talk around the issue with you as an anonymous caller. You don't have to name any names or even give your location to start off with. If they feel SS should be involved, they will let you know before telling you what happens next, which leaves you free to hang up if you feel it's all too much at that point. They will be VERY used to dealing with people who are giving information from "within" a situation and are very aware that the best results for the child happen with the co-operation of all concerned. They will also protect your anonymity and if it DOES come to your sister's attention, you will only be described as "an anonymous caller".

The idea of SS going in all guns blazing and removing a child from their parents is pretty out of date. It does still happen when there is sufficient concern for the child's welfare, but despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe, SS are not out to split up every family that comes to their attention. What child protection services want is the best long-term outcome for the child. This means working with their family wherever possible, gaining their trust so that problems become problems shared, rather than mistakes punished.

This comes with a health warning as none of us can possibly know the truth of this situation via a message board (not for one minute doubting what you say btw)... However, a more likely scenario from what you've described is that they will consult with the school or with your sister about what's best to do in the interests of your niece. Often social workers arrange to meet a child at school for an hour a week to offer some counselling and support. This could be just what your nephew needs.

Please consider ringing and asking for advice. It may help you to gain some trust and knowledge of how the system works. You can stay in control of how much you tell them - perhaps write down some notes for yourself about what you will and won't discuss before you call - and remain anonymous while you figure out what to do next.

Well done for giving such thought to your nephew's welfare. I wish you the best of luck.

Let's try that link again, shall we?

NSPCC Child Protection Helpline

AND I said niece instead of nephew - truly sorry about that, I have 7 nieces!!!

Wish this place had an "edit post" button sometimes...

Excellent and thoughtful advice there Gentle!

He's lucky to have you Deanychip, like I said before I didn't mean to attack you, I realise you are in a situation with no easy solution, it's just upsetting to hear.

There is so often other emotional issues involved with wetting, and your dn could be vulnerable to abuse from elsewhere too. Have you or could you speak to him about it? Has he been able to speak to anyone about it without his Mum there? I don't know how all this works, I guess the suggestions from Gentle would help with that?

Good luck, you obviously got a lot of comfort from your kind auntie, hopefully you being a loving kind auntie will be enough for your dn too.

That is unfair if she is doing this, is it his fault? Does he do this on purpose? Punishing him for not wetting is not the way to go about things. Has this been going on from birth, is it recently or does he do this on or off?

YAabsolutelyNBU, but I do think she needs to investigate why he has started wetting again (assuming it is again). Could be infection, trouble at school, or, just maybe, trouble at home.

Poor little mite sounds like he needs someone like you in his life, as much as possible. Could you maybe also take him to the zoo?

Your sis needs help by the way. Of the psychological kind. Sorry.

you should do party ...but thats not the issue here this child is 7 and dam sure he doe'snt do cos he is lazy think how embrassed he will be my friends dd is 9 and had problems like this for a while my friend said same shes lazy her dad finally took her to gp she has kidney problem(can't remember name of disorder ) and is now taking medcation and hasn't wet herself for about 6months now so please get your sis to take to gp .

deany- should also say both my daughters started wetting themselves again once they went to school and they also smelled really bad for a few years. They had silly rules at school about how and when you could go to the loo, and were too shy to ask, so they ended up not going. Both stopped in the same year, when we moved to a different country and different school, and all three of my children stopped wetting the bed in that year also. They were 10, 8 and 6 at the time. We went from 3x loads of sheets to wash every day to none. Was fab. But certainly would not have used humiliation or punishment as a teaching aid as can remember my parents using it on me and never worked.

deany-when you say contacting SS is not an option,you know that is not true.You might not want to,cos it is your sister, or cos there is past SS involvement in your family when young.But, a little boy needs an adult who knows what is going on in his life to intervene-that adult is you.
I think your nephew wets himself-if not for a medical reason-and if your sis. will not check this out this in itself is neglectful-but through anxiety.You say, his parents have a difficult relationship, his mother is emotionally cold, and perhaps he is anxious about school also.Is he being bullied, is he worried about going home?
Read Northernlurkers post-yes, you are right, it is awful-and this is your nephew.If this sounds harsh, in a way, it is meant to.You have posted on here and people are very concerned-you cannot expext us to forget what you have posted-I cant.You sound a very caring person, and your nephew is lucky to have you, but even all the times you have with him, will not un-do the damage that is happening at home.He may ask you as an adult why you did not interveve if you loved him so much-what will you say?
I agree with previous posts-SS are not ther to split up families-they are there for the best interests of the child. Your sis is not being physically abusive, but SS could help her to see that being emotionally cold is damaging-and help her to build a better relationship with her son.(by the way-she may be aggressive and arguementative with everyone, but she would have to listen to SS).
I am surprised the school has not spoken to your sister-if they have, and she was dismissive with them,and the problem persists, and he presents as anxious there, the school may take the next step-speak to school paediatrician, or contact SS themselves-they have a duty-as do we all-to protect DC.Is it possible she has convinced them she is taking the problem seriously? The GP by the sound of it, will also have seen your sis, at her best,(so to speak), so it is possible professionals may have concerns re your nephew.You dont have to give your relationship to your sis. over the phone, but even if you do, SS will just say they have had an annonymous call.
I do know how hard his is for you, and you may think I am being very unkind, but my dh and I have been un this position ourselves only recently.
Without giving details, my dh recently rang the SS re our concerns for our 2 nephews.The situation has been on-going for a few years,(emotional), but getting more volatile. My dh told his brother if he did not take boys out of situation, he would ring SS-he said this several times.(his brother,wanted out of situation,but was incapable of doing so).Anyway, he rang, and in the end, so did his own mother. His brother-upset at first, is now glad, as it has brought situation to a head,the S Worker is working with the family-not splitting them up,but it has empowered dhs brother to address the situation and do whats best for his boys.
Is your dns father loving or distant also-is he also treading eggshells?
Sorry for very long post, but for your nephews sake, you must do something.Thinking of you.

From Deanychip ""However, she loves him, she hugs him, she is supremeley proud of him and she shows this side to him all of the time.""

From OP we have seen a snapshot of her life and are making IMHO a lot of assumptions. She has completely lost it WRT the punisment maybe she is exhausted.

Does anybody else think she is not coping very well with the situation but is not actually a child abuser? Could she be depressed? If she was wouldn't the right help/medication turn her life arround as well as your Dn's?

I am aware that I am going against the flow but bare with me. A few month ago, I had a very very bad morning with the DCs before school. When we finally made it out of the house (very late) and started walking to school, I realised half way there that DD1 had put very dirty clothes on and had not brushed her hair I lost it completely with her, told her she was ugly and that people would make fun of her blah blah blah I do not remember all off it but it really was not a pretty sight. When I got back home, I felt like burrying myself in a hole with shame. I started a thread about the morning events and NOT A SINGLE POST said I was a child abuser, probably because I was already beating myself up with a big stick ( maybe she is doing that as well but is less confident to talk about it?). I cannot help to think that if OP's sister had started the thread, talking about how SHE lives the situation, we would be much more compationate with her and would have tried to direct her towards finding some help for herself and fot her DS(GP maybe...)

I'm with you Gorionine. From what Deany has told us, calls for SS imo are absurd.

Yes she's draconian, but she's not beating him or starving him or leaving him alone in the house for the weekend.

And she may be struggling, who knows? Not us from a few posts, I'm certain of that.

It could be just a very different style of parenting that she thinks there is no problem with. I have a friend who does the same thing with presents for her daughter - if there's even a sniff of a Bratz doll, it's given to the charity shop - and there have been LOADS of posts with this sort of sentiment.

But what child should need to go to another house for respite from their mother?

and yes she is draconian. taking all his toys away because of the mess? That is the light switch for me. She is obviously trying incredibly hard to control the few things in her life that she can (DS, mess etc)., and him wetting himself is such an obvious affront to this area of control....If it was ONE party, ONE day of no toys etc etc., it still wouldn't be the right response to this particular problem, but it would be more human/understandable. But my understanding is that this is not an uncommon occurrence.

She desperately needs help, BUT that is not her son's fault, and not something he should have to put up with. It's interesting, in another thread on here, about a DH who is generally abusive, no-one has suggested that when he does something nice/normal/is affectionate, that this in any way negates his behaviour the rest of the time. I feel this is the same. Just because she is proud of him, hugs him etc etc., doesn't mean the rest is normal or acceptable. If anything surely it's even more difficult for a child to untangle his emotions/his mother's messages, when she is so all over the place.

Deany - you said your aunt saved your sanity, I suppose I just can't see how you can leave him in that situation where you think he needs the same sort of saving.

It's difficult to tell from euphemisms like "they have a difficult relationship", but it sounds as if there's a whole layer of crap under there that is being suffered in silence.. by her, by you.. by her son. But he's the only one who isn't in a position to do something about it.

Practical help is saying that someone, somewhere has to grit their teeth and deal with the consequences, and help HER. She might come out of her corner kicking and screaming, but just because it would be unbelievably painful to confront, does that mean leave it?

As to the original OP, I think you can have a nice day out and a great tea, and it will just be part of what you do at your house, no dramas.

Jackaroo, what you are describing sounds like 'an unhappy childhood'.

There are hundreds of people (MN is testament to this) who had what they would describe as an unhappy childhood - and there are children out there today, lots I would say, who for one reason or another, are enduring unhappy upbringings.

There are parents who are obviously depressed, others who are but don't know it, others in poverty, some with so much on their plate it doesn't seem possible etc.

All these reasons and far more will mean that parenting styles will sometimes be very differently, from the 'norm' (whatever that is) but not necessarily a matter for SS.

Gorionine - as my earlier post i think the mum needs help and support, it sounds like she just might feel totally out of her depth and unable to cope - or ask for help - if she realises that the rest of her family think she is so awful.

My sister was like this as I mentioned in my post - it took a lot to sit and listen and a she took alot of her rage and frustration out on me, but we were able to talk about her OTT approach to discipline and unrealistic expectations of how small children should / do behave. At no point did i condemn her, i tried so hard to tactfully let her see that maybe there was another way and we talked about different ideas and she eventually lowered her rather high expectations of the kids, which made for an easy life all round..

In the end, she said it helped her to vent her frustration at me as she realised it stopped her yelling at the kids.

as i said before, i think your sis needs help and support not condemnation as you also mentioned she clearly loves her dcs.

try hard not to make it a competition for your nephews affections - you don't want her to feel threatened that he has a nicer time, at auntys house as there are fewer rules, no discipline but plenty of treats.

so maybe best not to let this situation get out of hand, dealing with the wetting is one thing, and the school can help, but there looks like a wider issue here.

Aunties are just aunties at the end of the day - but your mum needs to be everything.

No, didn't think SS was the end requirement and don't think that was my suggestion.

What I'm sure of, though, is that Deany herself feels that the son needs "rescuing" as often as possible, which speaks volumes. Why does a child have to be left to starve/alone for a weekend, to use examples given of what constitutes unadvisable parenting? In the middle of all the descriptions, back tracking and justification, I just see a frightened little boy who is wetting himself at the age of 7, with no solutions in sight.

I go back to my comparison with the DV thread.

Why is it OK to treat a 7 year old like this, whatever the circumstances, just because other children get the same treatment? I am only using the information I'm given by the OP, and, if someone other than his mother was behaving this way, there would be no argument.

Anyway, I've banged on enough; I've added my bit, and I'm sure the OP has enough advice already. Difficult, though, to be shown a glimpse into a child's life, and I'm afraid I dont' feel I'm happy just saying what the OP wants to hear; she's the grown up!

wow, I never get into stuff like this. There's probably a good reason.

Agree with Jackaroo-yes, the mum needs help, dont think anyone disagrees with this-but I am also not happy to say what the OP wants to hear-she is the grown-up,and the person in the position to intervene in the situation. It does not appear from the OP, that this is just one party, one lousy day-or a few-and we have all been there. This is something much more-read all the thread-something is not right, and in the middle of this, is a 7yr old boy.
Yes, many children have unhappy childhoods, and they often pay the price for this in adulthood-MN is a testament to this-and how many of them as adults now,wish someone who knew what was happening had said/done something?
A child doesnt have to be only beaten/starved/left alone, to be neglected. Emotional neglect/abuse,is equally as damaging, and bruises will heal, but words/actions stay with us for a long time. It is up to everyone to look out for children, and know the difference between a parent being depressed/having a shite time of things,than a situation that is unhealthy and damaging continuing with no change in sight.
Yes, medication/counselling,would probably make a difference to this mother-but she has to want it. It seems clear from the OP, that her sister even argues with the GP, and everyone around her treads eggshells-where does that leave you-you either intervene on her behalf,(and no, she wont like it), or you turn a blind eye-and where does that leave her son?
Also agree with the point, that if it was a dh that was generally abusive,(for want of a better word), his hugging his son, or being proud of him, does not make up for what else is going on. If we are equal parents, then we must take equal responsibility for what happens to our dc.
Do not envey the OP at all, but envey her nephew even less.

Gorionine the big difference here is that it is not the mother posting.

As far as we can tell from Deany's posts, she doesn't feel she is wrong.

Can I also just say that I think recent posts are naive in what they view to be child abuse?