To think there are more than "a few bad apples" in the police force?

[nellynaemates]

I'm not anti-police, you won't hear me spouting on about the "pigs" or any such unpleasantness. I don't come to this as someone who has an irrational and in-built hatred of the police.

However, having read about the recent incidents at the G20 protests it sounds to me as though there was an organised effort to brutalise the protesters. In the Guardian yesterday a young woman described how she was laughing and joking with officers earlier in the day and how they told her that there was a surprise coming up.

Half an hour later it all kicked off and I urge anyone who hasn't to read the testimonies of these protesters. It is frightening and reads like descriptions of violence in totalitarian states.

"Peaceful" protests don't seem to be allowed to exist any more. People are cordoned off like dangerous animals and attacked for the slightest thing (or nothing at all).

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would think twice before going to a protest now because I wouldn't feel safe. In a supposedly democratic country this should not be the case.

I'm not saying all police are bad, but I do believe that a combination of the culture surrounding the "war on terror" and the fact that the police force is bound to attract some unpleasant and power-hungry thugs into its ranks means that we have real problems with trusting police to always be on the side of the law-abiding member of the public.

Was the protest entirely peaceful? There were attacks on banks and businesses, these may have been perpetrated by a small number of people who just wanted to cause trouble but they ruin it for everyone else.
The police have to keep the peace that is their job or are you just reffering to the high profile case of the man that was pushed?

They did it in the miners strike as well. Organised attacks by the police on the pickets. the police attacked the pickets more than once, but lo and behold, you watched it on the news that night and it showed the miners suddenly attacking the police, and then it showed the police wading into the picketline to sort them out. How odd. Almost like the footage had been edited to show the exact opposite of what happpened. Truly bizarre.....

I agree. There have been a few incidences in recent times of police completely overreacting to demonstrators/protestors.

I work with the police in my job and have met some really lovely salt of the earth coppers who are truly nice people. And have also met some racist nasty bastards who make you fear for the state of the human race.

As Riven says it's not a new thing, and of course there are good and bad.

The protests weren't wholly peaceful were they? Businesses were attacked and people went with their faces covered etc. Why do that for a 'peaceful' protest? It seems to me that often the police are between a rock and a hard place.

Shocking. If there's even a tiny bit of truth to the allegations in the Guardian article then what the police were doing was definitely not peace-keeping.

Agree with Tryharder; most police are fab but there are some real mini-Hitlers out there who shouldn't be given any authority.

My brother was once beaten up by the police, locked in a cell with no charge overnight, denied a phone call, and when he protested about his treatment they played the funeral march at full volume into his cell for hours!

yes absolutely. dh is in the police and he says as much.

Also married to a copper. Lovely, sensitive, kind, non-aggressive, fair, personable etc. Of course there is a minority. DH has been lucky enough not to encounter any of these individuals through work but he works for a rural constabulary so it perhaps doesn't attract such behaviour.

I'm pacifistically anti-establishment and it's greatly laughed at by rl friends that I ended up married to a police officer. However, I have developed somewhat of a sympathy for some perceived behaviours of the police service since being married into it. Unarmed and armed defence training was a brief, controlled couple of days in basic training a long time ago. The knowledge has not been updated since, there is no refresher training, no recourse to build on these (essential) skills. In one year DH has been spat at, attacked, head butted, had a vicious dog set on him, kicked, punched, abused and insulted. His colleague will never use his leg properly again after recently being hit with a baseball bat. This climate of aggression directed at the police, the fear of being hurt quite seriously and the lack of proper training (imo) could all to easily lead to some officers acting first and thinking later. It's not right at all but I can see it more clearly now I hear some of what regular bobbies are subjected to daily. I think there's a training issue that needs to be identified across all forces. This isn't the whole problem or a complete answer but blimey, it would help.

I'm ex police myself. You want to try the job before critisising! Really, you do !!

What, you need to try doing the job before you are allowed to critisise the way you see the police behaving? Got to disagree with you there.

Your point being, ILoveTiffany?

Sadly the problem is that the 'bad apples' are protected and covered for by everyone else. But then there have been documented cases of police officers sticking their necks out and speaking out against the bad apples and basically being drummed out of the force because of it.

IloveTiffany, sorry totally disagree. I'm a teacher and I read regular criticism of my profession from non-teachers - some valid, some not so valid. But everyone has experience of being taught and that is where they get their opinions from, in the same way that most of us have encountered the police in one form or another.

I agree police work is immensely stressful but that does not excuse the brutality and racism that exists in the force, and goes largely unchecked. And, before you ask, yes I know police officers and my brother works very closely with them too. I have been on demonstrations and witnessed police brutality first hand.

Watch, don't people in the forces need to be aggressive though? They don't want pacifist wimps like me?!

While it's true that there are bad apples in all professions, a bad police officer is in a uniquely powerful position to throw their weight around. That worries me immensely. The way that the police also tend to protect bad officers, the ludicrously light sanctions taken against officers proven to have done wrong, and the numerous stories about the police-inspired miscarriages of justice... That's just not right.

I have no doubt that policing can be a hugely stressful job but that doesn't excuse the fact that there are way too many officers who think they're God and believe that laws are only for other people to stick to.

There are almost certainly a few baton happy officers, but then I think they need an element of fear about them. It must be so hard to make the right call, all of the time on being passive or being assertive and 'aggressive'. If they were more... laid back (?) and something BIG happened we would be giving off about how wimpy etc they are.

Of course there are a few bad apples in every establishment. I don't think thugs are exclusive to the police.

If you read yesterday's Guardian, the article talks of how one young woman was threatened with having her wrists broken and then was chucked back into the crowd with a kick in her back. Not sure how this enabled crowd control or had anything to do with the vandalism on RBOS.

I'm sure there'll be inquiries made.

Winky, "I'm sure there'll be enquiries made".

Yes, there will, but what will they actually achieve? This is the problem - what is needed is some of these officers to be made an example of: sacked and/or imprisoned if they've been found guilty of assault.

But nothing ever happens so the next time and the next time it gets worse and worse cos they know they can get away with it.

I certainly wouldn't attend demos anymore .

I think unless you were there (I wasn't!) it's almost impossible to know what really happened during the G20 protests.

The government seems to be pushing this fear/terrorrism culture down our throats through the media, which make a lot of unjustifiable actions appear to be justifiable.

One example is the trashing of RBOS:
yes, some idiots did something wrong, it still does not take away the fact that the majority of the protesters were peaceful. But everytime anything was reported on the news, that was the images they would show us.

Not to mention that the police tried very hard to intimidate people into going by "predicting" how violent it was all going to be.

So afterwards, their excuses coupled with the images they choose to show create this impression that the world is a horrible, unsafe place full of people who cannot be trusted and we need/should demand/are lucky to have tough policing and as many measures to control/spy on us/invade our privacy/do away with basic human rights/etc as possible.

In my experience, some police are reasonable, and human. But the ones I've come across who weren't.... I've seen friends pulled over and racially abused, been spoken to like crap, and generally there's been an air of rudeness that's uncalled for. Me and my ex neighbour had an issue once, I had 2 detectives come into my home, I offered them a seat and was told rudely "no we'll stand". Oh well I'll get up aswell then, just so you don't feel like you're towering over me in my own home!
Politeness costs nothing, and because of the rude ones they all get tarred with the same brush.

I am a Police Officer - and I am not aggressive.
I think society gets the Police Force it deserves.
We live in a hostile society? Just an idea.
Most of my colleagues are honest, caring and hard working ( I am in Child Protection)
BUT I do know a minority of Officers that are an embarrassment.
I am horified by the Tomlinson footage, there is no excuse for it.

an of course all those protesters were innocent victims.

Who said all the protesters were innocent of any wrongdoing?

As I understand it, the police are supposed to arrest people they suspect of criminal behaviour and charge them, not just beat the crap out of them. Or did I miss a change in the law?

"I think society gets the Police Force it deserves."

yep we sit aside and watched our liberties being eroded in the name of counter-terrorism and are now surprised that our own laws are bring used against us.

this picture needs another airing