To think there are more than "a few bad apples" in the police force?

[nellynaemates]

I'm not anti-police, you won't hear me spouting on about the "pigs" or any such unpleasantness. I don't come to this as someone who has an irrational and in-built hatred of the police.

However, having read about the recent incidents at the G20 protests it sounds to me as though there was an organised effort to brutalise the protesters. In the Guardian yesterday a young woman described how she was laughing and joking with officers earlier in the day and how they told her that there was a surprise coming up.

Half an hour later it all kicked off and I urge anyone who hasn't to read the testimonies of these protesters. It is frightening and reads like descriptions of violence in totalitarian states.

"Peaceful" protests don't seem to be allowed to exist any more. People are cordoned off like dangerous animals and attacked for the slightest thing (or nothing at all).

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would think twice before going to a protest now because I wouldn't feel safe. In a supposedly democratic country this should not be the case.

I'm not saying all police are bad, but I do believe that a combination of the culture surrounding the "war on terror" and the fact that the police force is bound to attract some unpleasant and power-hungry thugs into its ranks means that we have real problems with trusting police to always be on the side of the law-abiding member of the public.

I'm also not anti polce, infact I used to be a Special.

2 members of my extended family are coppers and they are both racist which is worrying as they work in a very multi cultural city.

My neighbour is a copper and comes across like an uneducated yob. Of course he may be different at work.

I had a police officer on my doorstep the other day who was so rude, said my car was blocking the road. It was the way she was saying it, etc. I pointed out it hadn't been blocking the road when I'd parked it but someone else had since parked opposite but said of course I'd move it. She just carried on a very aggresive manner "that other car has been there all day, it was there first, you're causing the problem". This was as I was walking out the door to move it. No way was the other car there first and her attitude stank.

I think some I know are very 'laddish' and often send racist jokes etc via text. Worrying.

I have been to many demonstrations. I could regale you with so many incidents where the actions of the police have resulted in the crowd being penned in for no good reason. I've watched the police physically hit people that were only trying to stop being crushed from a surge behind.

The one and only time I have being abusive to a police officer was when I had to hold someones small child who had been separated from their parent over my head, and the bastard continued to push us both bakcwards into a crush.

I think the policing of these events needs to be looked at again. There are often a very small handful of people causing trouble but these people should be pulled out and the rest of the people should be allowed to demonstrate in this so called democracy.

My ex went to court after the poll tax riots. His story is an indication that the force is full of good and bad police.

In brief during the demo. the police had penned everyone in. Things got violent on both sides. Some of the police began hitting everyone in sight. My Ex sawa woman with a toddler in a pushcahir desperate to get away.

She tried to get passed an officer who started pucnching her in the face. My ex couldnt get to her so threw a full 2 litre coke bottle and hit the policeman on the head. The coke burstopen spryaing everyone and the policeman fell to the ground. Woman ran away.

My ex was immeditaely arrested for violence to a police officer, he was beaten in the van and released the next day. At his courtcase his entire defence rested on the fact that he said he threw an empty plastic bottle (so not a dangerous object).

This was a lie.

Another police witness backed up my ex's story.

The only reason we think this could have happened was because he saw what the first officer did to the woman.

good and bad apples (but the rot spreads)

Sorry I never came back to reply. Wasn't sure of the response it would get but it's been very interesting reading.

To the people who pointed out that the protest wasn't entirely peaceful:

No, it wasn't. Those people who committed crimes should have been arrested, using only the force necessary to do so and no more.

However, that doesn't mean that the police have a right to treat all protesters with violence.

If a fight broke out in a nightclub and the police were called in would they have the right to baton charge innocent bystanders? No.

Interesting point about getting the police force we deserve. I do think we have stood idly by while our liberties are eroded. The fear of crime/terrorism is completely at odds with the reality. We have been systematically scared and bullied by the authorities until we'll accept the BS about surveillance/detention without trial etc. etc.

Of course it could be that (some) police (being members of the public too) have been similarly brainwashed by the fear propaganda and are acting accordingly. Pre-emptive action makes sense if you're convinced you're about to be faced with violence.

I really wish I knew what the answer was. I find it very depressing looking at the direction the country is going in. There are such wonderful things about our system (the welfare state, NHS etc.) and I think that some of what the government have done over the past 12 years has been excellent and really helped those at the bottom of society. I witnessed this first hand with my grandparents. I just can't understand how the same people can believe in such high levels of surveillance and state control.

I'm beginning to wonder if revolution and anarchism is the way to go (alternatively emigration might be easier!).

Erm, like any protester deserves to have the cr*p beaten out of them with batons.

Whether you're a crim or not, you still don't get clonked about the police with a baton.

Such a weird point of view - you're not innocent, or at least we think you're not so we're going to beat nine bells out of you with our truncheons.

There's going to be big issues with the police and the way they treat the public in future.

I've always thought a force that requires such low intelligence as an entry requirement would always be suspect. I'm not a fan of the police. I think most of them are thick as planks.

Duh. That should have read "clonked about BY the police"

Should join 'em myself evidently!

My DH always says you don't have to be intelligent to be a copper. His brother is really thick and is an inspector!

Of course there are more than a few bad apples. There is a whole culture of ensuring that the few bad apples are not brought to account. And that is the problem.

I have a couple of friends in the police force. Both of them have witnessed very violent and illegal attacks by their colleagues on people who were arrested. They haven't reported those attacks because they know it would damage a) their relationships with the rest of their colleagues (they'll be grasses) and b) potentially, their careers (they'll be troublemakers).

I certainly won't be going to any demos any time soon. I'm far to frightened of the police to exercise any theoretical democratic rights.

I dispute the comments that most police cover up for their colleagues. I know several officers, and they are proud of their profession, and recognise the damage that bad officers do to public perception and confidence. They would not be involved in any cover up.

Maybe I just know the good ones. I think they do a very difficult job, and it is easy to criticise.

I would encourage anyone who has had a bad experience with a police officer to make a formal complaint. At least with a formal complaint, it will need to be investigated.

Isn't it convenient that just days after a police officer is possibly responsible for an innocent man's death, a major terrorist plot is foiled?

Wasn't there a demonstration at a power station recently
where the police were in helicopters etc and trying to goad the protesters?

Climate camp

I find it very depressing to read your views about the Police.
I know it is not a personal attack, I know that I do my job well and take pride in what I do.
BUT I feel the police are losing public support, esp after the G20 incidents.
There are so few of us trying to be everything to too many people.
Our hands are tied, we are over regulated and weighed down by bureaucracy and paper work.
When I joined the Police were actively recruiting graduates ( I was one) in an attempt to improve the service, now , well I am not so sure..

When I said that Society gets the Police Service it deserves I was thinking that society in general is more aggressive and 'in your face'.
Protesters seem to want a reaction maybe?
I dont know I dont work in that area.

YABU

"Peaceful" protests don't seem to exist anymore in the true sense of the word as there often seems to be a militant rent a mob who join most causes and are up for a fight.
Policing in riot situations has moved forward and I think that mostly the policing at the G20 was mild by European standards.

We constantly forget that policeofficers are subject to fear and adrenaline like anyone else and therefore their judgement can also be poor at times.

To suggest that there are more bad apples in the police force than elsewhere is, I believe, completely untrue.
It has broadly been my experience that police officers join to make a positive difference. They carry out difficult, thankless work on strange shifts with little understanding or respect for the what, how or why they carry out their duties.

I would rather be policed in the UK than anywhere else in the world.

Rant over

I actually feel very sorry for the police, I got stopped for something minor about 12 months ago and the guy basically apologised for the ticket and subsequent court appearance etc etc, he said it was clearly a waste of everyone's time and money but if he didn't book me his boss would want to know what he'd been doing all day.
I don't think fining people for faulty break lights was the reason he'd joined up either.

"Policing in riot situations has moved forward"

Moved forward?!!!!

Moved forward suggests progress - the thuggish behaviour we witnessed on this protest (and on many, many others) is not progress by any stretch of the imagination. Saying everyone else is worse is hardly a plus point either - and again does not excuse beating up members of the public.

Yes, of course they have fear and adrenalin, but surely their training helps them to deal with that. I watch parents slap their children when they drive them to distraction, but as a teacher I would (quite rightly) be sacked for doing the same thing - so why is it ok for the police to assault members of the public at will without fear of repercussion?

I watched a clip on the news tonight of a police officer slapping a woman half his size round the face with his gloved hand and then battering the back of her legs with a baton.

Yes, the public have lost all faith in our police and that is a sad and dangerous position for us to be in.

A few years ago, I went on the Poll Tax mach, it was a peaceful protest.

The Police were great, friendly and chatty.

the violent minority were a bunch of Twunts called Class War.

Thy were only there to cause problems, not to protest.

The bad apples can come from both sides of the fence.

(And by the way when I was knocked over and being trampled on, it was a HUGE copper who noticed, grabbed me and put me up on some scaffolding)

I have met more good, nice and decent police than I have nasty ones. Have known police on a professional basis and also through family - all good I might add.

The police are not exempt from having some bad ones amongst them - it is still however, IME and IMO, a minority.

God you lot are so naive, bleating about police brutality. Some people got a bit roughed up in a demonstration? Gosh, what a shame.

You want to thank your lucky stars you live in a society where you are free to do and say as you think. The police forces in many countries are more brutal than you could imagine in your wildest dreams.There are no complaints procedures, independent enquiries or 'customer charters'.

Wasting police time is a grear book written by a frontline PC on the shit asnd hassle and mindless bureacracy they average copper has to deal with. Highly recommended.

Not remotely naive, thank you. Very well read and well informed and fully aware that we have it better than others.

However, that is a totally ridiculous argument for saying that we should just accept having the shit kicked out of us at a legal demo. Last time I looked we lived in a democracy not in a police state.

Not one piece of bureaucracy or shit and hassle excuses the police doing this.

My brother is a charge nurse in A&E in central London - you want to talk about shit and hassle (and staggeringly low pay) and regular violence, talk to him.

Does he beat the crap out of his patients? No. Would he like to? I'm sure he would sometimes, yes. But he uses some restraint.

Something it would be nice to see in our police force sometimes.

If you are well read, then add that book to your list and become even more well read.

I can read it, won't change my opinion that police brutality is wrong.

If my brother can resist meeting force with force then so can they. And many others who work in hideously stressful jobs, being faced by intimidation, violence, rudeness and fear on a daily basis.

The argument that other people have it worse is just meaningless. Is that what the police are going to use as their defence? Oh, yer, we're thuggish bastards m'lud, but you should see the other guys?

har de har

"something it would be nice to see in our policeforce sometimes"

as if you are discussing the rule not the exception