To think there are more than "a few bad apples" in the police force?

[nellynaemates]

I'm not anti-police, you won't hear me spouting on about the "pigs" or any such unpleasantness. I don't come to this as someone who has an irrational and in-built hatred of the police.

However, having read about the recent incidents at the G20 protests it sounds to me as though there was an organised effort to brutalise the protesters. In the Guardian yesterday a young woman described how she was laughing and joking with officers earlier in the day and how they told her that there was a surprise coming up.

Half an hour later it all kicked off and I urge anyone who hasn't to read the testimonies of these protesters. It is frightening and reads like descriptions of violence in totalitarian states.

"Peaceful" protests don't seem to be allowed to exist any more. People are cordoned off like dangerous animals and attacked for the slightest thing (or nothing at all).

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would think twice before going to a protest now because I wouldn't feel safe. In a supposedly democratic country this should not be the case.

I'm not saying all police are bad, but I do believe that a combination of the culture surrounding the "war on terror" and the fact that the police force is bound to attract some unpleasant and power-hungry thugs into its ranks means that we have real problems with trusting police to always be on the side of the law-abiding member of the public.

also comparing someone on riot duty to someone working in A&E isn't exactly apples with apples

great argument though

No, because A&E nurses never have to put with stress, violence, intimidation, or anything else.

The police are the only ones with a tough job aren't they?

Let's just let them do what they like - after all they do in other countries so that's alright then .

darling you must be kidding yourself if you are comparing standing facing a rioting mob with working in a&e
I'm not saying that your brother doesn't have a testing or trying time in his workplace and situation but they are far from the same thing

The police aren't allowed to do what they like, now are they?
There is a great deal of scrutiny, investigation and discipline involved in what they do and how they do it.

That's bollocks SF.The whole Stephen Lawrence enquiry was the most important event in a 1oo years.

The police are damned whatever they do.If that Brazilian really was asuicide bomber and they failed to stop him, there would be hell to pay.

Absolutely Moondog, the very same people who are calling the police for shooting De Menezes would be screaming blue murder if he had blown up the train. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and especially for those who are never going to be in the position of having to make a split second decision.

Here we go.

With rights go responsibilities.

Personal and societal responsibilities.

But no one seems to own those because it often means not doing what you want when you want to.

Ah, evening Expat.
She takes no prisoners.

Stay, there is a good point there in that an honest 'We fucked up and are really bloody sorry' goes along way.' [I experienced an in no way comparable but nevertheless parallel situation when requesting an independent review against an NHS dept. who had made an almighty cock up of my dd's care].

It is still too easy to expect public services to do everything and act perfectly. Like cases when SWs are pilloried for 'failing' abused kids. What the hell has gone sowring in that we expect puvblic servants to do the job that either the childs' immediate or extended family should be doing? Where the hell were Bay P
's grandparents/uncles/aunts/cousins???

For me, the fact that so many women in London had their rapes put down as "no crime" because they had their drink spiked and couldn't remember every detail even more worrying an insight into the attitude of the police. (as came out in recent case of taxi-driver)

That coming on top of the footage of an innocent bloke being knocked to the floor (for no reason, even if he had been guilty of something, he was not being violent), and my memories of the miners strike, the attitude of the police bussed up from the south, the stories I heard from my (tory) uncle who worked in the hospital....

My confidence in them has been shaken.

I really am not sure that I would take my kids to a demo, as I used to be taken.

Exactly, moondog.

Governmental functions of society are supposed to do all, be all seeing and provide all. And do some with 'Compassion'.

But people in society expect to behave however they basically please.

"It is still too easy to expect public services to do everything and act perfectly"

In the Police's case I think that is a reasonable expectation.

I won't even mention Hillsborough because that was a totally different situation but a policeman did pull my DH clear, he's the teenager you see on the footage being pulled up and over from the stands above, but another spat in his face as he staggered from the stadium.
They knew they were going to get roasted alive for that incident and instead of holding their hands up and saying sorry there's been lie after lie for 20 years.

I meant should even mention, cos clearly I just did

Perhaps though expat...
sometimes the weight of trying to always do the right thing on behalf of society means that your judgements on the ground aren't what they might be back in the squad room or under review.
Not always simply a gungho approach

The hyped "terrorist threat" is just as hyped within the police force. Some everyday decisions can seem life and death in the heat of an adrenilised situation.

Getting back to the OP's point though I still think that the police to the largest extent are good minded and fairly lion hearted individuals who put themselves in situations that we ourselves never would.

Its not a reasonable expectation, police are people, human beings and human beings make mistakes, its part of being human.
There is , of course, a big difference between making a mistake and deliberately doing something wrong but mistake or malice the public blames them all the same anyway.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't REALLY does not even begin to apply to the case of poor Jean Charles de Menezes. The whole operation was Keystone Kops from start to finish. The Met had NO valid reason to believe he was a suicide bomber primed to go off. They let the so-called 'suspect' get on TWO different buses, FFS!

Poor guy was exterminated for the crime of living in a block of flats and not being White enough for the Met.

Bunny., if they couldn't remember every detail, there probably wasn't really any point going along with it was there then?
The police don't decide who to prosecute,that's the job of the CPS.

Rembmber, the whole 'axis of evil' guff suits a lot of people. Certainly not just the police who merely act in the way politicianswant them too.

Edam ,that last bit is hysterical Guardian reading tosh.

Re taxi affair, pissed woman gets in a taxi [often with no money], accepts a drink form the bloke driving and then sort of remembers something untoward happening, tells the police and thrn is pissed off that 'nothing was done'.

FGS.

No, it isn't. The only things the Met had on him were the address - a block of flats - and skin colour. Because the police force serving one of the most multi-cultural cities can't tell the difference between Latin American and Asian.

"Governmental functions of society are supposed to do all, be all seeing and provide all. And do some with 'Compassion'.

But people in society expect to behave however they basically please."

I agree with that.

Oh and you could then?
Particularly on the day after something truly terrible had happened and the country was on high alert???
I'm in Bangladesh and many of the people here could pass for Thais, Peruvians, Malaysians, even North Africans.

It's easy to be critical from comfort of own home.

114 people in Nottinghamshire were arrested 2 days ago by 200 police officers in a raid on a meeting planning a climate protest.

Not even protesting, just planning.

I wouldn't feel that I could go on a protest/demo. I think this country is becoming more of a police state all the time. Scary.

Oh FGS Moondog, why are you arguing for the right of the police force to undermine our so-called democratic right of protest, on the basis that police forces in other countries are worse?

You really have been reading too many Telegraph articles. We are not naieve, we know that other police forces are worse than ours, and we want to keep that gap if you don't mind - or preferably, bridge it by having the police forces of other countries raise their standards, not by having the police force of ours lower theirs.