to not allow my child to do a reading in church?

[GooseyLoosey]

Dh and I are atheists. The dcs attend the local school which is C of E (although wholly state funded). There are no alternative non-C of E schools locally.

The school tends towards being very religious and there is a special Easter service in church for the school this week. Ds (5) has been given a reading to do at this service. It includes many "Praise God" and "God is good" type statements.

I don't wish to over react but getting ds to actively participate in an act of worship may be a step too far for me. AIBU to object and to consider telling them to get someone else to do this?

Thanks very much Peachy - I will look through those. I too thought Granny's answer was rather informative although ds was rather bewildered by it.

Must try harder onegar, my post of 10:00 already covered that:

"I would allow DS to read something praising Allah, actually (as I believe that the one main monotheistic religions are essentially the same and worship the same God - which they do - the strife and warfare is manmade and in the detail)"

[do we have a ner ner ne-ner ner emoticon?]

One, absolutely! I am an atheist! I was just trying to say that we can admire and be appreciative of the marvels of the human mind and imagination, and different philosophies and if our kids can take on board that multitude they have an intellectual and philosophical advantage that might pave the way for a better future for us all.

My degree is similar Salome, except that it is Philosophy and Re (world faiths); I think had I done Theology it may have skewed my virewpoint soemwhat, but I think I can now see validity in aspects of all faiths (main ones, we all know there are some sad existences in cults etc).

I think faith can't be kept completely eprsonal- it's too big a part of someones life for that but there is a middle road. I ecpect peopleto accept that I am a christian and it is amain part of my life, not to agree with anything I beleive. I am amrried to an Atheist or a start LOL.

My own take on sad sitautions such as NI etc is that humans can manage to use religion to justify anything they choose . I am not certain that is a criticism of the central message of most faiths but a massive one of humans: I do think many people would find another excuse however to commit atrocities and that much good is done in the name of religion as well.

GL can I just ask - are you an agnostic atheist or an atheist? ie are you sure that god doesnt exist or are you thinking that in the absence of evidence you dont believe in anything?

Does that make sense?

Just as an interesting point about shared religions- the Brahmanical description of the One God, Atman etc describes better my understanding of God and the sould better than any Christian writing I have yet to light upon.

('it may have skewed my virewpoint soemwhat,' salome- sorry I reread that and I hope it doesnt make it sound I think that happened to you, just that I personally learned a lot from the degree format I took that fed my understanding of my faith.)

I actully sometimes wish I had accepted the Theology degree I was offered as I do feel something of a calling to Ministry but I also think I was led to the degreee and my creer plans for a reason.

Now I'm confused. If a child, aged 5, is too young to be an athiest, then surely a child, aged 5, is too young to be a Christian as well?

I would say I am an atheist. I don't see the need for a deity to explain the world and I look for physical evidence to explain how the world works - I personally have no "faith" in something I cannot see or explain.

I am however aware that a reasonable percentage of the world is committed to Abrahamic faiths and would therefore as least like to try and understand what it is that they believe in. I have to say I think I find the basics of Islam and Judaism easier to get than Christianity.

I dont think its that difficult to understand at all - the basics of christianity I mean. My 5 year old can explain to me the intricacies of Ben-10 and The Clone Wars etc and would take at face value the story of Christ as a story. I dont think they need anything deeper than that.

GL there's a small book caleed 'Why I Am A christian' that might be worth getting: I ahve to say it fits little of my beleifs but probably does equate to what a lot of people beleive.

(Slug I think you have a point- at five I would say a child is raised a - nsert belief system of choice)

They grow fast though- by 8 and 9 my older boys seem to know they believe very different things.

Peaches, I come from a background in which religion plays an enormous role. Catholic/Prot family, buddist mother/uncles/ lay CofE preachers...as well as my own academic enquiry. I find it truly fascinating from an anthropological standpoint. But even as a child I just couldn't get my head round the idea of God at all (wasn't allowed to do first communion as had some heretical ideas!).

So while I may sound flippant about the whole God thing, its a way of getting over rough ground lightly. I'm 99% convinced that God does not exist. I would be foolish indeed not to admit that there is a 1% chance there might be something else out there...and given the rate at which we are as a race developing our knowledge about our world and our universe, its kind of exciting too.

But as it stands, even stripping away the cultural dressing of faith to examine the concept of a spiritual dimension to humanity, I still would rather consider that the human mind and spirit and its context in the universe have enough unexplored wonders to keeps us going for a good wee while without a higher entity. I think we are the miracle in and of ourselves.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable.

I would let him say his piece if he wants to (I am impressed he'd want to my 5 yr old wouldn't). It is not an act of worship unless he believes. It is just words. View it as a confidence building and an lesson in speaking in public. If you don't believe it is no different to reading a fairy story.

FWIW we go to church but my elder DS doesn't believe in any of it but I wouldn't try and force him to believe or not believe. I don't think you can. Maybe he will change his mind, maybe he won't who knows. Actually who cares. What he believes is entirely up to him. My 5 yr old pays lip service to it but he is too young to believe or to make the choice to be a Christian. I would rather they made up their own minds.

You have sent your DS to church school and he will hear from those who do believe. Between you and the school he is being taught that there are different opinions and hopefully, when he is old enough he will make up his own mind too. I think it is unfair to make him pass up this opportunity to be part of the Easter performance because of your beliefs.

In fact, thinking about it I could explain quite a lot of Christianity through the medium of Star Wars.

I mean Christmas is a given - they have done the nativity in schools - stable, Mary, donkey yadda yadda...Jesus grows up, discovers he can use The Force to cure people, make them walk etc. Then he has to scarifice himself so that everyone else can be saved (see Obiwans death sort of) then he returns in another form (a ghost - a voice in his head) to help out Luke ahem I mean mankind.

Theres no ewoks though. I cant shoehorn them in anywhere...

can't the ewoks be one of the tribes of Israel?

Though Princess Leia as Mary, hmmm. However, might be a born again believer if Joseph was Harrison Ford...

I can undertsand Salome- and to an extent I would agre, I was an active Humanist before changing mymind but a lotof that follows me and informs me even now: I'm a big insister on free will and that therefore humans do have that element of choice outside of religion that Humanism insists upon.n I'm not certain reigion makes you behave in any way really, only gives you a reason to do so if you want it - there are plenty other reasons out there too.

And I would DEFINTELY agree about Harrison Ford - might even convert my Mum.

Haven't read whole post, but Goosey, I sympathise. DS (nearly five) attends a C of E school too, and there isn't a local enough, non-faith alternative. I too am an atheist.

DS has repeated a few learnings from school which I don't believe. If he wants to explore these with me, I tell him that some people believe this - I tell him several friends and neighbours who do - and some don't, and we talk about I and a few other friends believe. I tell him he can decide what he believes himself, but he doesn't have to decide yet and it's good to just soak up and ruminate this info for now - or ignore the lot of it, if he sees fit.

Where I'm leading with this ramble is that I think it's up to your son. If he's comfortable saying this stuff, and would just enjoy the challenge in itself - whether he believes what he's saying or not - I'd let it go. If he isn't comfortable doing it, in himself and not because you/anyone else has made him so, he shouldn't have to.

I always thought Star Wars was a Christian allegory. Is it not supposed to be?

our work is done then!