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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

or should my boyfriend marry me?

87 replies

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 10:53

We're expecting our first child conceived through IVF using donor sperm for medical reasons. My DP is the legal father of the child. We've always mentioned marriage as being part of our future. Now I bring it up (in a highly hormonal manner admittedly) he says he doesn't want to get married although he is committed to me because it's just a bourgeois custom and we're just conforming to the norm.

I don't want to have a different name to the baby, and for obvious reasons I do want our baby to have my DPs surname.

Our relationship is happy.

Also we want to adopt more children and I think this would be easier if we were married.

Does anyone know the advantages of being married, for both partners?

OP posts:

LadyGlencoraPalliser · 17/03/2009 10:57

Tell him you want to have the same name as the baby so if he wants the baby to have his name he'll have to marry you. Why should he have it both ways.
As regards legal advantages, does he realise that you and he are not each other's legal next of kin. If there were medical issues where consent was required, parents could step in and create problems. This may not be an issue in your family, but it certainly would be in ours.
Also you need to make sure you have made sensible wills and sorted out house ownership details or again, if one of you died suddenly there could be considerable repercussions.

jennybensmummy · 17/03/2009 11:05

ALso, if you give baby your name and youre not married (surname that is) and both your names are on birth certificate then when you get married they can change it for you at the registry office i believe. I was due to marry my ex when we split and now my son has ex's surname as we didnt realise it could be changed easily once we were married, worth looking into maybe??

laweaselmys · 17/03/2009 11:08

If you're not married it's very important that you sort out wills and life insurance. (DP and I have just done out LI and are trying to sort out our wills now - first baby due in two days)

There are legal rights you miss out on by not being married. I believe there is also a kind of widows allowance? Or similar that you are not entitled to if you're not married.

We're also looking into some kind of pre-nup in case of our break up that would detail childcare arrangements etc - but haven't been able to find out just how legally binding it would be yet.

The short answer is yes you do lose out. However, if he really doesn't want to do it - do you want to force him?

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 11:24

The thing is, he is very committed. He signed a document saying we were being treated together for IVF and accepting full responsibility for any child that came out of it, so has no problem with commitment. He is slightly Aspergers (I don't use the term lightly I promise) and has a huge problem with formal occasions. I don't need the wedding, just the marriage. Er, and the rock on my finger...

The scenario that worries me most is adoption.

I've stormed off in a sulk now, what a moron

OP posts:

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 11:25

That's interesting JBM, although I fear if he won't now he won't ever...

OP posts:

anniemac · 17/03/2009 11:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

EightiesChick · 17/03/2009 11:46

YANBU. I always think people should get married in these situations. If it's just a piece of paper to one partner, but it's important to the other, then why not indulge the one who cares by signing that silly piece of paper? You don't have to have a big formal do either - save any gathering for the arrival of your DC and just book the register office. Plus there are the legal benefits as people have said. It's all very well wanting to be 'bourgeois' but if that's at the expense of making sure your family are looked after...

smee · 17/03/2009 12:10

Why not let it go for a bit and enjoy being pregnant. He's obviously committed and wants to be with you. He's not personally rejecting you after all.
But if it's that important to you, tell him so, but also be clever and put the practical reasons. I'm not sure where he'd stand in terms of birth certs in your situation, so find out that first. Adoption - I think you're right there too. Be daft if your application failed simply because you're not married. Also you have to think in terms of worst case scenario, so if you're not married and one of you dies, the other is liable for tax on the other's estate. Only a good argument if you have a house that's worth a fair amount, or you're independently wealthy (now wouldn't that be nice). It's mad to get into that as well as grief for the sake of a marriage certificate though - especially when there are children involved.

peppapighastakenovermylife · 17/03/2009 12:12

Is the wedding itself important to you? Could you perhaps both take yourselves off somewhere nice for a weekend away and get married in a registry office?

If the only reason he can give is he cant be bothered with the fuss then surely your desire to get married based on very sensible reasons should override that?

If he is slightly AS probably rules and logic would apply to him. Have you sat down and explained the legal side of things to him?

choosyfloosy · 17/03/2009 12:17

a bit of a LOL at bourgeois custom - is he an academic circa 1972 by any chance?

However, tbh I don't really see why he should marry, if he is adamantly against it. You could change your name to his, if you want to. He is doing all the important stuff. If I were really anti-marriage (as opposed to not wanting to bother) I don't think i would find the widow's benefit issue particularly convincing. Sorry - I do feel for you as I like being married, but I do sometimes wonder why.

Lulumama · 17/03/2009 12:21

there have been some really informative threads about teh benefits of getting married

have a search in the archives

no-one wants to think about the worst happening, but it does. there are several young widows and widowers on MN and most have posted very movingly about their situation .
have a search for yorkiegirls's posts on the subject.

re bourgeois custom.. it does not have to be a big white wedding, you could elope, go abroad, grab two witnesses off the street and go to the town hall, it does not have to be a big fancy day, but almost a formality

motherinferior · 17/03/2009 12:24

Lots of people don't want to get married. And I don't see why your child has to have his surname either. Nor do I think not being married will interfere with any future adoption plans.

If you are economically independent, the only thing you'll gain out of marriage will be a fairly small allowance if he dies.

motherinferior · 17/03/2009 12:25

Ring the British Agency for Adoption and Fostering and ask about marriage, if that's what's bothering you.

I can't bear the idea of getting married, myself.

LoveMyGirls · 17/03/2009 12:32

I've been there and tbh I did feel a bit rejected especially as he had asked his ex to marry him when he was about 18, he said I was young and stupid and that's as maybe but I feel I've earnt the right to be his wife tbh, we've been together since we were 19, he is dad to dd1 who was 2 when we met and we've now got dd2 who is 3, we've lived together for 7 yrs etc etc but he kept saying he would ask me when he was ready and he's obviously commited to us or he wouldn't have agreed to dd1 calling him daddy or planning dd2 with me etc which I understood but I was still a bit hurt he couldn't see why marriage was important to me.

In may last year he proposed, I like to say it was out of the blue on an areoplane......and it was on an areoplane.....but I had a feeling from January that he was going to ask me soon so I joined WW so if he did ask I could go out and look at dresses straight away........

Anyway a few months after we got engaged we had a falling out in a row he said I'd pushed him into getting married (yes it was more my idea but he did ask! and it was about bloody time) I said I wasn't prepared to go ahead if thats how he really felt and that if we were never getting married there was no point staying together, he explained he was scared of everyone staring at him and thought it was an out of date cereomony with no meaning for him as he isn't religious.....I said I wanted us to be a proper family legally, I wanted a day to celebrate our love for each other with all out friends and family that have supported us and love us, I also wanted to have the chance to thank them for helping us over the years and making it possible for us to still be together (we had various friends that have baby sat so we could go to couples counselling years ago, his family that have taken our dc's away on holiday and day trips etc so we can have some quality time on our own and my family who have also helped us day to day and taken our dc's on weekends away)
I wanted to have a fabulous memory for us and our children to treasure forever.

Short of it is we're getting married in 6months and he's almost as excited as me now! Thanks to our wonderful famillies our day is going to be even better than we had originally planned for and I can't wait!

Maria2007 · 17/03/2009 12:39

To be honest though, you do have the marriage. You just don't have the wedding, iwswIm. He is commited to you, as you say. I mean, he's taken the big step of having a child with you.

I do agree you need to look into the legal side of things, e.g. wills etc. But other than that I think YABslightlyU because a wedding ceremony can't be forced on someone who doesn't want it. If he has his objections to marriage, then you can have a long discussion with him about it. But I wouldn't doubt his commitment to you.

Also. Your child can have both your names, that's another option.

Sorrento · 17/03/2009 12:42

I would want the wedding, I guess though he may change is his mind, my DH was adament he wouldn't marry again, the first ended badly.
I said I wouldn't put his name on the birth certificate then, my first relationship ended badly.
In the end he realised unless we started to pull together as a family and be man and wife with children it was all a bit too informal for his liking. So we got married 7 years ago all is good.

I do rather think though if marriage is important to you, then that needs to be sorted before having children, I mean why would he buy the cow now he's getting the milk for free ?

Maria2007 · 17/03/2009 12:46

Sorrento: why would he buy the cow if he's getting the milk for free? Sorry, that feels like quite an outdated view to me. Who's buying anything, in this scenario?

Also, how awful to suggest his name doesn't go on the birth certificate. This is a man who not only is commited to this woman, but went through IVF with her. How spiteful to not put his name on the birth certificate. Would the OP want her partner to marry her under blackmail?!

choosyfloosy · 17/03/2009 12:49

Ooh yes Sorrento, the only way anyone gets into my pants is with a wedding ring along for the ride. It was fantastic growing up with my Mum and Dad who got married on the whole cow/milk basis and were totally unsuited to each other.

smee · 17/03/2009 12:50

Sorry Sorento, I'm with Maria. If he doesn't want to get married, he has every right. It's not a rejection, just a perfectly valid point of view.

Sorrento · 17/03/2009 12:50

I wasn't suggesting the OP did that, but I did.
If I'm good enough to be the mother of his child I'm good enough to be his wife.
Probably is quite old fashioned but I've seen lots of new fashioned friends with their casual live in partners get absolutely screwed when the boyfriends are fed up of happy families and walk out.
If they'd insisted on marriage first they'd have more rights and the fathers more responsibility.

Sorrento · 17/03/2009 12:52

Who suggested anything about no sex before marriage ?
But when it comes to children that's what I would want and it's what the OP wants too.

laweaselmys · 17/03/2009 12:53

The OP is not a cow. Just so we can be clear on this, and I don't think trying to force anyone into marriage is even remotely helpful.

There was a silly thing with me and DP a while ago when he said he had been thinking about proposing but then changed his mind! I was so gutted I guilted him into reconsidering, but as soon as he said he would because it clearly meant so much to me - I absolutely didn't want him to. It would be the worst most horrific proposal.

We'll get married when he wants to, and if he never does he never does, we'll stick to just doing our best to make sure we are both covered legally for anything that might happen.

Judy1234 · 17/03/2009 13:18

Do these things -

Make a will
Make sure you know the legal position on responsiblity for and rights over a child if you are not related - he's not related by blood or marriage to this child as it's by sperm donor
Ensure any properties are in joint names and all bank accounts and other savings and products
Write the proceeds of all life policies and pensinos into trust for eacho ther so there is less inheritance tax at death - tis not b paid between husband and wife b ut is if you aren't married and plenty of couples have to sell their house every year to pay it because they weren ' tmarried
You can change your name by deed poll to his without getting married or he could change to yours even... why not ask for that and see how sexist or otherwise he is!
Remember on separation there is no claim uynder divorce law if you aren ot married. It can make a massive difference. What then counts is whose name the assets are in rather than the courts evening things out etc. So make suer you earn more than him, make him give up work not you etc etc so you aven't in a financial mess when you part.

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 13:28

Moooo...OP here...

I've just told DP i wouldn't marry him if he was the last man on earth. We are communicating in a most civilized manner by shouting from the top of the stairs. I expect soon we'll sit down and discuss it properly. I think I have him by the knackers as we want to adopt from China and they need you to have been married for 2 years.

Smee "If he doesn't want to get married, he has every right. It's not a rejection, just a perfectly valid point of view."
All I can say is, feels like rejection, smells like rejection, must be rejection!
Surely there must be a meeting of minds?

OP posts:

Sorrento · 17/03/2009 13:31

I didn't call you a cow peachy ......

Why has this conversation not happened before now ?

Or has it ?

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