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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

or should my boyfriend marry me?

87 replies

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 10:53

We're expecting our first child conceived through IVF using donor sperm for medical reasons. My DP is the legal father of the child. We've always mentioned marriage as being part of our future. Now I bring it up (in a highly hormonal manner admittedly) he says he doesn't want to get married although he is committed to me because it's just a bourgeois custom and we're just conforming to the norm.

I don't want to have a different name to the baby, and for obvious reasons I do want our baby to have my DPs surname.

Our relationship is happy.

Also we want to adopt more children and I think this would be easier if we were married.

Does anyone know the advantages of being married, for both partners?

OP posts:

BEAUTlFUL · 17/03/2009 13:31

I agree with Sorrento!

I don't think this is as cut-and-dried as all that, though, as the OP's DP has re-neged on the deal. Marriage was "always part of the plan" apparently - so how can he be allowed to change the plan now without any say from her?

In this situation, I think you'd be well within your rights to say that you only stayed in the relationship because you'd agreed that marriage was the long-term plan. As that plan has now changed, you can't carry on with the relationship and are moving out and finishing it. That will probably be the only way you're going to make him want to propose to you - because it's how he'll get to keep you.

BEAUTlFUL · 17/03/2009 13:36

The modern-day version of the cow/milk line is, "Why would anyone buy the pig just to get a little sausage?"

Sorrento · 17/03/2009 13:41

A friend of mine wanted children, her other half said he did too, they got married and then he decided he wanted a few more jollies around the world.
She said no she did not want to spend another 2 years saving and then 6 months travelling so she moved out.
Within 3 months she was back home and up the duff.

Woman these days seem to get the worst of both worlds, equal rights to work your ass off, be a mother, look fit for your partner and they won't even put a bloody ring on your finger, the worlds gone mad .... moo

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 13:42

Xenia, re no. 2. there's no doubt over his legal responsibility towards the child, he signed up when we had the IVF.

Love No. 5!

OP posts:

Maria2007 · 17/03/2009 13:45

You know though, it may feel like rejection & smell like rejection but it may in fact not be rejection.

Of course, you know your partner better. However, the way I see it, you're not leaving any room for the possibility that he may not want to get married. If you're saying 'it's rejection if you don't want to get married' you're not accepting that someone may love you & yet object to marriage as an institution or whatever. It's as if saying someone who doesn't want children is rejecting their partner. Well not necessarily. There has to be space for those choices to be made as well (not wanting children, not wanting to be married etc, and yet wanting to be in a loving relationship).

On the other hand, you too have the right to say very clearly what you want & why you want it. You can't demand, but you can say.

The adoption issue is another story. Very sad that marriage comes into it but there you go.

Perhaps you can give the whole thing a bit of time & have some open conversations about it all?

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 13:48

Sorrento we've always talked about marriage - that's why I'm so upset about this now. The basis of our relationship was that we would not be together if we did not want to stay together. The M word has often been mentioned. Just a year ago I made some polite enquiries and he said we could think about it when we'd been together for 2 years (last month). Since then we got pregnant. So now I'm like WELL!?!?! And all of a sudden it's a bourgeois custom and I'm turning into my mum (grrr). The worst thing about this row is he'll never do anything if he thinks he's being pushed into it.

I asked him for a mathematical explanation (numbers are his friends) and he says its 80% fear of a formal ceremony and 20% not wanting us to 'be that conventional couple'.

I've said I couldn't give a shit about the ceremony (not giving up on the rock though...)

OP posts:

seeker · 17/03/2009 13:52

"for obvious reasons I do want our baby to have my DPs surname."

What obvious reasons?

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 13:53

but Maria I feel he's rejecting ME, the me I am, if you see what I mean.

I'm a bit more conventional than him. Also I don't have the almost impossibly messed up family he has so perhaps I'm more positive than him about it.

When at first he didn't want to try for a baby I explained to him that he was with the sort of person who wanted kids and that me and wanting kids were one and the same. Obviously I feel less strongly about getting married than having babies but it's the same thing.

BTW, he now feels having babies was all his own idea...

OP posts:

BEAUTlFUL · 17/03/2009 13:54

Boot him out. Tell him it's 80% anger that he's changed your plan without informing you, and 20% knowledge that the world is full of lovely, sexy men who have no fear of commitment.

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 13:56

Beautiful unless your heart is in it, saying something like that is pure brinkmanship. And my heart isn't in it.

OP posts:

Maria2007 · 17/03/2009 13:58

Peachyfox, I think it's great that you spelled out your wishes about having a baby. The fact that he went along with it- even went through IVF with donor sperm, not an easy decision or process for either you or him- means he is serious about you & about living a life together. I believe you cannot blackmail / push people into serious decisions like this. I certainly disagree completely with those who say you should throw him out. You have the right to say what you want. You even have the right to leave him if it's that important to you. I just feel that being pregnant should be about making plans together, being happy & optimistic, and not arguing about something that you disagree about. OK I see that 'something' is important to you, but the bottom line is, you have him right there with you, your child has his father- and needs his father- and this is stuff that can be worked through, in my book it's not stuff over which we throw people out (that's just how I see it though). You would never want him to marry you just because you threatened to throw him out, would you? A wedding needs to be a happy occasion.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 17/03/2009 14:06

I think Sorrento hit the nail on the head.

'If I'm good enough to be the mother of his child I'm good enough to be his wife.'

OP I remember a post of yours from previously about ownership of flats and other financial arrangements. You make damm sure that everything's in your name until you get that bit of paper signed. All this BS about not wanting to be conventional and bourgeois is a coward's refuge IMHO.
I too have seen friends who thought they were oh-so liberal and open-minded left in tatters when Mr Unconventional decided he'd got bored and walked.

Haribosmummy · 17/03/2009 14:10

Well, I think the OP is perfectly reasonable.

I would want to be married to the father of my children (and am)

Neither of us was at all fussed about the whole 'custom' thing so we buggered off to Vegas and had a fab old time.

I appreciate that he doesn't want the whole ceremony thing, but it's possible to do it without pomp or ceremony, just about vows.

But, I just LOVE being married to my DH

Judy1234 · 17/03/2009 14:14

I think the ceremony thing can be solved. You can even have a church wedding with no guests. We only had 20 at ours in church on a weekend in 1983. Registry offices are obviously possible too.

if he is worried about losing money to you if he divorces (writing as someone, female, who had to pay a huge chunk of money to their husband on divorce as he earned less) you could try a prenup agreement although they aren't really binding in the UK.

BEAUTlFUL · 17/03/2009 14:30

peachyfox, are you sure you're not just hooked on trying to change your DP's mind about stuff as a sign that he loves you? You've already changed his mind over trying for a baby, now it's marriage. Do you honestly want to be the only one pushing for this relationship to move forward?

If you do get him to agree to marriage, you will have to push, cajole, persuade and beg for every little thing you want, always. He will NOT shower you with gifts, afection, jewellery, romance just because he married you. Marriage does not change people in any way. He will be just like he is now unemotional and logical but you will be legally bound to him.

I'd really think v carefully about this!

smee · 17/03/2009 14:49

At the risk of mighty flaming I'm on his side now - if only because he's not being allowed an opinion according to a fair number of you. Relationships take two and each person has a right to their own pov. He's committed to you OP, surely that's what matters. He's also a man who you say doesn't like being pushed into things - so why are you pushing? Chill, you're pregnant - he wants to be the father - that's fantastic. You're great together, so stop pushing his buttons and I'd bet if you do he'll probably say yes.

LoveMyGirls · 17/03/2009 14:50

I'm the same age as my dp (soon to be dh) he has always been a bit behind what I want, I already had dd1 and when we met he said he could never be with me and become a dad fair enough his choice but somehow he changed his mind when I started putting the feelers out for new men to date! I wanted dd2 before he did but she's 3 now and he totally adores her and is the best dad ever, I had to wait for him to catch up that's all With the marriage thing it's the same again, it's not that he doesn't want to marry me it was that he didn't get the importance (but totally does since I explained in jmuch detail about why I feel it's so important and once I pointed it out he wholeheartedly agreed and infact we've had a row since because he thought I wasn't including him enough in the arrangements and planning!

Some men just need time to adjust its not that they don't want the same as you

Beautiful - see I don't agree she will always be pushing for what she wants there are some things that men need time to adjust to but there are other things they are forth coming with. Maybe OP is like me and enjoys planning and pushing (not naggin) for the next thing........

it feels like the next step for us will be buying a house but it's actually DP who is more keen on that idea than me and I'm sure he will be half pushing me to do that but I will because it's the next step and what he wants and ultimatly we are a team and work together to get or give each other what we both want.......I hope

BEAUTlFUL · 17/03/2009 14:56

I think my last post was overly harsh. Sorry, peachy. I was projecting, as I love getting my DH to change his mind about things - and as soon as he does, I don't want them anymore...

Sorry.

HangingOnTheTrubliphone · 17/03/2009 15:09

I am married to DH but I kept my surname, and DS also has my surname. Am interested in your 'for obvious reasons' statement, peachyfox!

Original poster

peachyfox · 17/03/2009 15:26

Thanks LMG you're spot on, my DP is a late adopter. He wasn't sure he wanted kids yet now I'm pg he has become a compulsive tummy-patter .

Hanging I said that because we used donor sperm and, although I know it's not necessary, I want them to share a name. Not a very good explanation of course, but it sort of seals the deal in some way. For me, anyhow.

BEAUTIFUL you can always come round and do some work on changing DP's mind about a few things - I'll give you a list .

Actually we just talked through the situation again, calmly this time but ended up deciding to defer the conversation to when I'm slightly less hormonal and can go for more than three minutes without crying..

OP posts:

choochoochaboogie · 17/03/2009 15:29

I guess he's scared of too much commitment all at once - marriage, family etc etc - well grow up - some men are such wimps.

MilaMae · 17/03/2009 17:23

I don't think anybody should get married unless they really want,what's the point? Yes I know all the legal benefits but as others pointed out on other threads you can get round all those.

I can see where he's coming from as we did 7 years on the ttc and IVF/ICSI rollercoaster. We still haven't recovered from the emotional battering and just wanted to get on with focusing on our family after. We have been together 20 years and have 3 dc.

Having said all that there is the adoption issue which we were considering so I share your concerns. Can you contact the agencies concerned and find out exactly if it would be a problem then take it from there? As others have said you could do it completely fuss free(so I've heard)if needs be.

Re the rock- I wouldn't bang on about it too much as he might be worrying about money etc(another pressure). A bit presumptuous I know but speaking as somebody who isn't into marriage it would put me off even more.

seeker · 17/03/2009 22:10

""for obvious reasons I do want our baby to have my DPs surname."

What are these obvious reasons?

seeker · 17/03/2009 22:12

Why should he get married if he doesn't want to?

If the OP was saying - "dp wants us to get married, but I really really don't want to" we'd all be saying "stick to your guns - why should you if you don't want to?"

EightiesChick · 17/03/2009 22:32

I wouldn't because, as I said in my earlier post, if it means something to one person but not to another, then the 'not bothered' person should give in for the sake of the person they profess to love. If it's just a piece of paper / bourgeois custom, why not indulge them? (LOL at 'is he an aademic circa 1972'!) If it's fear of a big formal do, simple, don't have one!

It does seem to be to be unfair, though, to be saying 'why should he get married if he doesn't want to?' without acknowledging that it is equally valid to say 'why shouldn't Peachyfox be able to get married if she really wants to?' Why is it her who has to back down?

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