Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Grammar Schools and Private Schools

247 replies

peapodlovescuddles · 02/03/2009 21:59

I genuinely don't know what to think here so would be interested to see what other mumsnetters have to say

Today while my son was swimming I overheard another mother moaning. Her DD has just found out she hasn't got a place at our fantastic local grammar school.
She was saying it wasn't fair people like peapod sent their children to grammar school when we could easily afford private school fees, my DCs went to a good prep school and then onto the grammar because I wanted them to meet a wide range of people from many walks of life. I didn't feel this would be accomplished at the local public school and I don't want my children to board.

So should I have sent my children to the private school so someone less well off could have had their place? Or is ANYONE entitled to a state education?

OP posts:
HarrietTheSpy · 04/03/2009 15:02

Totally agree with Debs40, who posted ages ago I admit. Independent schools sponsored by the state. Will I be trying my girls for the local one anyway? Probably. Am I pissed that if they don't get in and I want a similar standard of education my option will be to pay my taxes and (in today's money) £3500 per term to get it given that the only alternative is a comprehensive secondary school with much much worse results? Yes. All a very very bizarre system in my view. Not sure they should be shut down though - I hate the idea of killing off a great school. But no, it doesn't seem fair, and in fact the independent schools around here seem to have a more diverse range of students/care about 'the whole child' rather than just a test score. But I guess they HAVE to rely on the test because it's objective (setting aside the tutoring issues). Whereas independent schools can be more flexible.

It's a mess as far as I'm concerned.

Judy1234 · 04/03/2009 16:54

Most of the country has no grammar schools. You don't get that impression reading mumsnet.

Also they di9dn't always work. My children's father went to one - there were four schools in his area - all grammar schools and one secondary modern. The 4 grammar schools were not very good at all. None of them.

Pristina · 04/03/2009 17:06

Xenia, 93% of the country don't attend private schools, but you also wouldn't get that impression from MN!

Nontoxic · 04/03/2009 17:36

Jack99, sorry to rewind, but if this school is a grammar there will be posters on the 11+ forum website who will be able to advise you - people who've already had DCs go through the test and are now trying to put siblings through.

I've never seen anything but helpful and supportive advice there.

jack99 · 04/03/2009 17:51

Thanks Nontoxic, will have a good look at that tonight

NotAnOtter · 04/03/2009 20:57

there are an awful lot of not so great private schools out there

Gracie123 · 04/03/2009 21:51

I passed the grammar school entrance exam and still went to a comp because it happened to be a christian school and my parents thought that was important. Some people bitched at the time (taking a place at the 'good' comprehensive when I could go togrammar etc...) but everyone was over it after a term.

I now live in the prep school my DH works at and am still considering home-schooling!
I think there are problems with all the schools and it's a parents decision how to tackle those and where to send their kids.
Don't let anyone make you feel guilty about doing what you think is best. At the end of the day I'd rather offend someone than penalise my children for their sensitivities.

Claygate · 05/03/2009 14:20

I think there is too much competition from very bright and also expensively tutored children for grammer school places. Most children who get in will be very clever naturally so the next step is private....cant afford that so the next step is your local comprehensive with the best achievements, cant get in because oversubscribed so have to find a long bus or train or drive to another school that is not oversubscribed.....but they are that way because they are full of poorly performing children or teachers who most parents believe are a product of bad family environment or just not bright. So what do you do. If your child is bright with your support they will get all their exams. I went to an awful school but the top set children all went to universities. I also went and that was with very little parental support.

The best thing would be to not play the game, refuse private, refuse grammer and support state schools.

What if that poorly performing school was suddenly flooded with bright capable well behaved children. The standards and results will go up.

Just because only 40% achieve the highest grades doesnt mean yours wont be one of that 40%. Also there will be less competition in the top sets because your child will be bright. Plus your child can be schooled near friends and family.

But it takes a leap of faith. Are the people most concerned the middle classes with less able children.

Claygate · 05/03/2009 15:36

Sorry, Grammar not Grammer, see i didnt go to a good school.

LynetteScavo · 05/03/2009 17:22

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that NotAnOtter!

NotAnOtter · 05/03/2009 21:19

lynette

Claygate - i dont think many of 'us' politics aside would look the gift horse of a local 'grammar school' in the mouth

it is just not human nature

I feel 'blessed' and very lucky to have got my dcs into them - especially as we are out of area

altruism tends to go out of the window when considering a child's education

arcticwind · 05/03/2009 21:33

I have read all these threads about 'middle class children tutored to the nines to get in' and used to beleive them - until I heard yesterday that my niece got a place at a grammar school. She had no tutoring as her mother is opposed to any form of selective schooling, and achieved the place on her own merits. She is clever but by no means exceptionally so, so I am thankfully beleiving that a clever child will get in no matter what and the tutoring is irrelevant if the child is not right for the school.

Of course irrelevant for my dcs unless we move but reassuring ...

LynetteScavo · 05/03/2009 22:58

Ok.....you go first Claygate.

abraid · 06/03/2009 09:50

There are grammar schools and grammar schools. A grammar school in a small county town won't have the same over-subscription for places as, say, Tiffin Girls in SW London.

You mightn't need to tutor for the first.

LynetteScavo · 06/03/2009 10:04

We live in a small county town, and both grammar schools are classed as outstanding by ofsted, with DC's travelling ridiculous (IMO) distances to attend.

duchesse · 06/03/2009 10:08

abraid- unless you're Devon's only grammar school located in a tiny village, and happen by a process of clever engineering to be at the top of the national league table. In which case you are massively oversubscribed from all over the country.

LynetteScavo · 06/03/2009 10:12

My point being that every parent I know is tutoring their child to get in. Except me, atm, which is resulting in me waking up in a cold sweat.

duchesse · 06/03/2009 10:15

We didn't, and ours didn't even though they're very bright. I consoled myself with the notion that maybe the school in question likes a particular type of child- pliable.

LynetteScavo · 06/03/2009 10:25

Duchese - do you regret not tutoring?

The boys grammar here gets some of the best results in the country, and DS is academic- I know he could cope with the work if he got in - but the school seems so, um... boring to me- and they have to do lots of homework wich is a dirty word in this house.

duchesse · 06/03/2009 10:28

Lynette- I was secretly very relieved- if you ever saw "The Demon Headmaster" on telly you'd have quite a good idea of the school. Pupils boring freakily neat, well-behaved and lacking quirkiness, but oh so good at public exams.

LynetteScavo · 06/03/2009 10:58

duchesse I'm glad I'm not the only person who isn't in total awe of the local grammar school.

DS has been described as "quirki" since he was at nursery. I think if I sent him there he would last about 5 mins. Or maybe he would learn to conform which is what one of his past teachers was so keen for him to do.

duchesse · 06/03/2009 10:59

Primary school teachers love conformity! In fact primary school is an exercise in conformity imo.

ScottishMummy · 06/03/2009 11:09

doh!life is an exercise in conformity.if you want to get on,study,work hard,stick in at
school.

what is this so called conformity?do you mean salaried employment,studying,career progression,mortgage,children.sounds good to me

isn't that what most of us attain?it is what most want for their children

i do

now in the midst of recession people are experiencing malaise as this "conformity" is disrupted

MrsBartlet · 06/03/2009 11:14

Obviously all schools are different but dd, who is in Y7 at a grammar school, was described as "eccentric" by her history teacher at parent's evening this year and he thought this was very much to be encouraged! He was rather eccentric himself though
Her school is far from boring and definitely not an exam factory (even though they get fantastic results). They have regular days when they have no timetable so they can do fun activities. As most the girls want to work there don't seem to be many behavioural issues resulting in a very good rapport between staff and pupils and a very relaxed atmosphere.

TiggyR · 06/03/2009 12:20

I agree Scottishmummy - I have no problem with Home Ed per se, I think it's great in lots of ways but I am sometimes very sceptical when I hear some people justify their motives for it. I've heard so many people say their child didn't settle after about three and half minutes in school, and how the environment didn't suit them or wasn't going at their pace for whatever reason, so they pulled them out. Life, and the wider world never goes at my pace, and frequently doesn't suit me, until someone offers me a private income for life and a bespoke social cicle designed just for me, with no inconvenient or unpleasant spanners in the works I'm forced to go with it!