To not see the urgency to get married just because we have children together?!

[Zebraa]

I'm mid twenties, have two children (15 months and 2 weeks) both were not planned, second one actually more of a suprise than the first! I'm a teacher but had to give it up once I got pregnant with DD whilst on mat leave. My DP has a really good job but like me, is young and just at the start of his career etc.

All my friends and family came over at weekend and we went out for dinner and the topic for the night seemed to be when is my DP asking me to marry him! Ok, funny at first but it seemed everyone and their dog feels we should get married as we have two babies! If we didn't have children, they wouldn't feel the need to say it as our friends have been together years, have no kids and nobody says anything to them.

So, AIBU to think marriage isn't the rule just because we've started a family?!!

havent read all six pages, just wanted to say that all couples get this eventually, kids or no kids. if you didnt have kids it would be "when are you going to have kids"

it started for us when DH and I had been dating for 6 month, we got lots of people who could not get their head round why we hadnt moved in together yet

once we moved in together it was "ooo it'll be you two next" everytime anyone else got married

As soon as we got engaged people kept asking if I was pregnant yet

if you have boys people ask if you're gonna try again for a girl and vica versa

Oh and before I even met him it was "not met that special someone yet?"

These inappropriate and shockingly blunt questions/statements are just a fact of life. I dont understand the ask-ees myself, I'd never hound a childless couple about when they're gonna have kids incase there was a medical reason or something!

Well said SalBySea. I was fairly pissed off by some of the comments when people found out I was expecting ds3 - as if I'd love him less just because he was a boy (and as if I'd been trying for a girl)!

MamaZzz I was going to give my comments on your question but I think it's too tricky, and too easy to make sweeping statements without knowing really what's going on. I have certainly read statistics saying that violent or sexual abuse is more likely when children live with people other than their natural parents. Not only that but that even if both natural parents are cohabiting the risk is supposed to be higher. I don't know how well the studies are designed to take account of other factors such as abuse of the abuser when they were children.

Anyway dp and I are loving towards each other and care deeply for our children and have been together for ages. I don't feel that my kids are at less risk now, because we have that 'piece of paper', than we were a year ago. It's not as if my kids are being 'exposed' to just anyone. In fact (like someone else pointed out earlier) we have been together for far longer than many of our contemporaries who did the big flashy wedding thing. And it was the break up of many marriages in my parent's generation which put me off marriage and weddings in the first place.

Have read the rest of this thread since I posted further up and still don't understand why some people in supposedly loving, committed relationships DON'T want to get married. People have responded and given plenty of reasons why they SHOULD get married. But I haven't really heard any good arguments against it really.

I once knew a woman at work who had been with her "partner" (hate that word) for years and had 2 kids with him. She was quite a feminist, anti-marriage etc. and we had lots of discussions about it as I was engaged at the time and obviously discussing my wedding plans from time to time. Turns out that a few years back she had had some form of humanist commitment ceremony in front of friends and family on top of a hill somewhere or something. So she actually liked the whole idea of making the public statement of being committed, but didn't actually want to do it the legal way.

Now, I just find this very strange. A small, uncharitable part of me thought that she didn't actually want to do it legally because that would make any future failure of the relationship more messy. Somehow quite a lot of the time I meet long-term couples who have never married, a small part of me wonders if they have never done it because they are waiting until someone better comes along, whom they WOULD be prepared to marry!

Both me and DH have had partners before when we were younger, and one of DH's longer-term girlfriends desperately wanted to get married. He didn't. Looking back, he says it must have been that it's not because he was against the idea of marriage per se, it must have been because he just didn't want to marry HER, because me and him were together much less time before he proposed to me, the only fear being that I would say no!

Can someone please point out to me the reasons for NOT getting married? Am genuinely trying to understand...

That's a lot of assumptions Curly, I find your post rather patronising and rude to be honest.

Not sure why it bothers you so much but dp and I aren't married because we errrr just don't want to plain and simple it's not our thing,not our bag. Neither of us are showy types, we both hate stress,our families couldn't care less and the marriage ceremony itself(and I've seen a few) makes me want to vomit however you scale it down it's still vom inducing.

Dp's sister has been with her partner 20 years the same as us, not married for the same reasons- just not their bag. They've just got married recently for purely financial reasons which they want protected,reg office then hot choc at Tesco's.

Both sets of grandparents are in verrrry long marriages 50 years. My m&d met at 17 so none of us are unmarried because we've been scarred and want to bolt.Long relationships are what we're all used to.

Regards dp and I we met at uni and both knew that was it,marriage just wasn't high on our to do list. We wanted to travel,enjoy postgrad life our 1st flat etc. Knowing you've found the one you don't feel the need to proclaim to the world you just know. We don't need to talk the talk we walk the walk.

During 20 years we've supported each other as penniless students at diff times, endured 7 years of IVF and my near death as a result,re-location too many times to mention,redundancy and having 3 longed for dc in 15 months and the subsequent lack of cash and stress that having kids brings. If we were both waiting for somebody better to come along believe me we'd have parted long ago. We're both in it for the longhaul which is why we're both still together.

Married couples don't have the monopoly on committed relationships it is possible to be committed and not married.

I still don't see how a piece of paper and a ceremony ensure life long committment only love does that real love the type that endures through thick or thin that I have to say not everybody is lucky enough to find married or not. I think the divorce statistics back me up here.

Now having said all that the widows benefit would be useful. My sister is getting married this year and she's not smultzy at all,very like me. We're going to see what she comes up with then may very possibly do the deed just for financial reasons. Personally I don't think thats a particularly nice reason to get married so we'll base the whole tiny occasion as a personal celebration to ourselves celebrating our 20 years of unmarriedness

Zebraa congratulationson new baby.children need attachment,secure bonding love and affirmation.you dont necessarily need to be married to do that

suit yourself
dont bow to anyone else agenda

anecdotally,i know wonderful parents who are married and i know equally wonderful parents who are not married

suit yourself

I think DS dad and I have a 'family' commitment in that we are DS' co parents and our parents, siblings etc all know that, so there would be no unsightly rows if one of us dropped dead.
But DS dad and I are not a couple and never will be. We respect each other as co-parents and that's that. And it irritates me when people come out with the same old bullshit about children being 'damaged' by their parents not living together: DS is fine, has two loving parents he sees lots of and plenty of relatives as well.

MilaMae, I didn't say it "bothers" me, I am just genuinely interested in why people DON'T do it. Sorry if any of it came across as deliberately patronising or rude, wasn't my intention at all. One of the joys (or not!) of mumsnet is people generally feel more openly able to explore ideas on here and ask people about more contentious issues than they would to people's faces in real life. If I met an unmarried stranger at a party with their long-term partner, I would never ask this stuff - obviously that would be nosy and rude. On a thread like this where people are exploring the idea of marriage from all sides, I thought my post was valid.

"Neither of us are showy types, we both hate stress" and "marriage ceremony itself(and I've seen a few) makes me want to vomit however you scale it down it's still vom inducing". Snap - I totally agree with you, some people enjoy a big white wedding, but it wasn't for me and DH at all, which is what I posted further up. We did it in a very simple but lovely way (to us) while we were on holiday, and purely for "romantic" reasons, barf-worthy or not. Different strokes and all that, and no offence to anyone on here who did it the big traditional way. You have to do it the way you want to do it. Although, actually one of the things I do regret is feeling under pressure to have a big party after we got back from holiday for all our relatives and friends. Wish I hadn't bothered - whole thing cost too much, felt obliged to invite anyone our parents wanted to invite including relatives I hardly knew, it was too stressful, and making small-talk with people I haven't seen since seems pointless now.

Thanks for posting about your own circumstances re: your family's long relationships and your own with your DP. Like I said, it is nice to get the proper low-down on people's long-term relationship as you just don't find out these things casually in conversation in real life as it's too nosy to ask! I have to be honest and say that sometimes I HAVE wondered whether couples choose not to get married if there has been many divorces in the family or amongst their friends, so hearing your side of things on that score is very interesting.

Even if you personally DO end up getting married purely for financial reasons, there is no need to go the two extremes of either schmalty OR business-like. Just make a nice day of it! I used to work with someone who married for the first time later in life, did a quick registry office job, then all their guests climbed into an old London double-decker bus and they all had a packed lunch on the way round all the sights of London, taking photos etc and had a blast. Then onto a pub later on - all very informal but memorable to them.

Anyway, even if you DO do it for financial reasons just quickly in a registry office then off for a Macdonalds (!) it's better than feeling obliged to go through with a big white traditional wedding costing nearly 30 grand, having massive doubts about the suitability of your (shitbag) fiance, but feeling unable to cancel it because it was "all arranged" and would cost too much to cancel. (someone else I know)

Thanks, Curly sorry if I was a bit snippy but I've found the whole thread a bit grating to be honest. Probably because I've never come across this whole pro-marriage thing in RL.

Actually you're probably right on this thread it was a valid question-apologies.

Anyhow many thanks for your nice last post,some good ideas in there I may be borrowing

Another thing.

My friend has just spilt up with her fiancee. They share a mortgage, she is a SAHM.

As they are not married it is going to cost her a fortune in legal fees to get all she is entitled to (prob. more than if they were divorcing). She is lucky as she has a very good friend who is a family lawyer but she is bitterly regretting family concerns over her 'perfect wedding' putting her in this situation.

Her son is only 13 months and was planned. She did not envisige this situation in a million years. She says that if she knew then what she knows now (hindsight is a wonderful thing) she would have frog marched her partner to the registry office and told their families who had very strong opions about what weddings should entail to bugger off.

Get married, protect yourself and your children. No one outside you and your partner even needs to know.

I recently discovered that another couple of within the same social circle have been married for 5 years and no one knew. They had a very small civil ceremony abroad just after we graduated.

gasman,they dithered about mariage because worried about the perfect day?maybe this was indicative of other problems.generally people who want to get married do,rather than delay over details of day