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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To say when it comes to parenting, men make choices, woman have to make sacrifices?

112 replies

Sushipaws · 01/03/2009 14:57

I made a comment the other day to my dh saying that sometimes I felt a bit selfish doing things that put my dd second, like going clothes shopping.

He said that was the difference between men and woman, that men are less likely to give up the things they enjoy because they became a parent. I said that I didn't really have a choice to give up many of the things I enjoy and he disagreed.

He says it's about choices and I say woman have to make sacrifices and thats part of being a parent. He says he refuses to give up the things he loves and will fit them around parenting.

He's a good dh and most of the time he pulls his weight as a parent. He works long hours and has a high stress job, so it's not like he's lying around while I do everything.

I just wanted to know if other woman felt that they'd sacrificed a bit more than they expected when they became parents. Or if I'm being unreasonable and I made this choice?

OP posts:

benandoli · 01/03/2009 20:49

It is a man woman thing. If I go out I leave bottles made, clothes or pjs ready, food planned etc etc. If he goes out he goes out and I take care of it all.

FairLadyRantALot · 01/03/2009 20:51

indeed benandoli....it has always been that way in our house, too....and I think for me that was often why I found it simply less stressful not to go out....

TheFallenMadonna · 01/03/2009 20:52

It isn't a man-woman thing.
It is how the man and woman in your household do things.

juuule · 01/03/2009 20:53

Agree with FallenMadonna - not a man-woman thing.

letswiggle · 01/03/2009 20:55

If I go out, I leave all the food ready, and they go to Macdonalds anyway, to my disgust. They are all very very happy about this and do not care that I am disgusted.

Biccy · 01/03/2009 21:39

Sushipaws, I really sympathise. I fell the same. I don't think this is all mummy martyr stuff either. I too knew my life would change after having a child, and I desperately wanted a child. But it is hard hard hard to adjust to life where you can't just do what you want when you want anymore, even though you made the choice yourself, and wouldn't change it. And it's especially hard when you see your other half still (apparently) doing exactly what they want and when. I do ask for time off to do things for myself, and I do make the most of the time when dd is asleep, and I'm getting better at just walking off and doing my own thing at home when dp is here too. It's just that always having to ask when you want to go somewhere on your own when dp just says 'I'm popping out' without saying to where or for how long, can get to you sometimes...

Original poster

Sushipaws · 02/03/2009 08:02

I'm not a Mummy Martyr and since getting over my pnd I have learned to not feel bloody sorry for myself. I just don't think that as mothers we have the same choices open to us as most fathers do. Whether it's the way our relationship has developed or it's instincts that mothers have that some fathers don't feel in the same way.

My dh is a loving, kind man and a good father but he has the ability to switch off his daddy head much easier than I can. Yes, he has responsibilities as the main earner in the house and I would rather be the one who stays home with dd more.

I guess the main issue is that through his choices he manages to maintain a bigger part of who he was as an independent man. As a mother I feel the same choices are not as easily open to me and therefore I have given up (sacrificed perhaps being too strong a word) more of who I was. I think that saying you should have known this before you decided to become a parent is naive, I don't think most parents realise whats involved until they are responsible for a new little life.

I don't want to be the one who says to my dh, I'm going out and thats that, I don't want to order him around, thats worse than being a mummy martyr.

I see some of you have amazing relationships where you don't feel any of this and thats great for you but it's also good to know I'm not alone in the way I feel about my relationship. With lo number 2 on the way I know it's going to get more intense for both of us and he will no doubt have to take on more responsibility.

OP posts:

womblingfree · 02/03/2009 09:12

Biccy - I know exactly what you mean. I always used to feel I had to 'ask permission' to go out or butter up DH to get a lie in, for instance. Something just changed over the last year, probably due to the fact the DH is now in a much less demanding job.

Now if I want to go out or have friends round, I just tell him. I also give him an option on a Friday night of whether he wants the Saturday or Sunday morning lie-in so we know where we stand and I don't end up getting resentful.

I still go out less than he does, but that's largely down to the fact I'm not working and can't afford to (he goes out less than he used to as well so not totally one-sided).

Also a lot of my social life now revolves around meeting up with mine and DD's friends during the week, as I have more opportunity to do lunches/coffee mornings/playdates now, whereas while I was working I'd probably only do that kind of thing about once a month, if that.

I think it's very easy when kids first come along to get in a rut of mum taking on most of the responsibility, because it's generally a necessity to begin with, but you need to renegotiate as they get older and circumstances change.

womblingfree · 02/03/2009 09:16

Just wanted to point out after reading the post before my last one that I don't tell him I'm going out in a bossy way, and he does get a couple of weeks notice.

I'm invariably the one that changes my arrangements if something clashes too!

BonsoirAnna · 02/03/2009 09:19

at the OP's perception that going clothes shopping is somehow selfish and putting her DD second.

Wake up - having children doesn't mean that you have to be a mother 100% of the time all day all year. That would be very bad for your children, very bad for you and very bad for your relationship with your DH.

BonsoirAnna · 02/03/2009 09:20

I don't think that any parent has the right to assume that the other parent will take care of the children while he/she goes out. Going out on your own after children requires you to check with your partner whether that is OK with him/her.

Judy1234 · 02/03/2009 09:22

One reason to go back to full time work at two weeks as I did because then you don't let these sexist patterns build up (obviously only if that suits you both).

I really don't know how so many women put up with such sexist men. Is it because they grew up in sexist homes or think they are lucky to have a man at all or have no sense of self worth? I think they need to take action today to right these things and ensure they aren't treated like dirt and allow themselves to be and take on too much.

notyummy · 02/03/2009 09:25

Just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Some very good points made from all sprts of view points, with no squabbles.

Excellent work everybody; you can choose a sticker if you want.

BonsoirAnna · 02/03/2009 09:26

I don't think, however, that going back to work is the only way to defend your own interests once you have children. It really is more dependent on your own view of yourself and what you think you deserve for yourself than on any other factor.

cornsilk · 02/03/2009 09:26

Wow Xenia you went back at 2 weeks?
I wouldn't put up with a sexist man either, whether a working mum or not.

inaliffey · 02/03/2009 10:18

Xenia, I think they put up with it for many reasons, knowing that they'll be caught in a poverty trap if they leave for one thing?!

I did not 'put up with it'. I left. But I still come in from criticism from you for not working! Even though you must on one level realise that only about 10% of the population are high earners.

Poor though I am, I'm glad I left an unacceptable situation, my self-worth is fine, but I've paid a financial price. Just trying to explain why people weigh up things before the pack their suitcase and march off.

ThePregnantHedgeWitch · 02/03/2009 10:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

Sushipaws · 02/03/2009 10:32

NotYummy

OP posts:

Judy1234 · 02/03/2009 10:34

And relationships are complicated. I would much rather have had a happy marriage with a sexist man than my rather awful 19 years married.

Part of it may be what they see their mothers doing. My mother was fairly robust in her views. My father did all the night feeds by bottle in the 1960s despite working full time as a doctor (consultant), acme home for lunch every day so saw a lot of us and vacuumed the house at the weekend so I have never seen or lived in any kind of sexist pattern. It would be unimaginable and I cannot image my daughters woudl tolerate it and nor do they have boyfriends who would expect that kind of thing.

Also there aer genuine differences between men and women in terms of brain chemistry, caring, nurturing and all those things so it's probably easier to end up exploited as a woman particularly if you are financially dependent on a man, than if you're male. But I think it's worth not martrying yourself. My sister and I talk about this a lot and I get her daily long emails about the trials of her life and in a sense self abnegation to her children - the contrasts between our lives are huge and it's not a money issue really. It's more that I can say - I am doing well enough and I've spent X time with the children so now I will do Y (I was out all day yesterday for example) and I do it without guilt and don't usually think about them when I'm at work or play although like all parents at the back of your mind you're remembering the time to be back. I am in year 24 as a mother now and the longer I do it the more I see the importance of also balancing things particularly when children are older and that becomes possible so you also have time for yourself which then makes you a nicer person with the chidlren. The theme of my last email to my sister was - just say no.

Mumcentreplus · 02/03/2009 11:11

it's all about compromise...for both parents and even the children too...thats how families work...everyone makes 'sacrifices'or choices to make their family life better ..and if you feel you are making too many speak up...

LittleOneMum · 02/03/2009 11:20

Sushipaws, are you married to my DH? he says exactly the same.

I completely agree. We both have stressful working jobs. I am always the one who is home to pick DS up. As a result, I don't get to go to the gym/go for a drink after work like I used to. He on the other hand does get to do these things. He could be home more sometimes but it doesn't seem to bother him as much as it would me. he always goes to football on a saturday as well whereas I would feel so guilty not spending one of my precious afternoons off with DS. I think it is all chemical or something as he is an excellent Dad. I do feel like I've lost part of myself though...

OrmIrian · 02/03/2009 11:20

We aren't like that OP, thankfully. DH always encourages me to go out and do the things I want. He goes out often but wouldn't think twice about staying in if I wanted to instead (with the possible exception of when there's a big match on ). But I don't object to him going out either, I wouldn't dream of it.

And when he's here he looks after the children well. Why wouldn't he? They're his too.

There is an small difference in the way we look at our responsibilities though. For example if one of the DC wanted to watch something on TV and so did I, I would give in willingly, DH wouldn't. I give my children some of my dinner if they've finished theirs and are still hungry, he wouldn't. It's just a difference of degree.

And when the DC were very little they became effortlessly the centre of our world. It didn't strike me to do anything but put them first. That eases bit by bit as they get older. It's not so much sacrifices, as doing the obvious thing when it's needed iyswim.

Judy1234 · 02/03/2009 11:33

May be men just differ. Or is it money? I earned more than my children's father. Before we even married was agered if childcare did not work out he would give up his job as that made financial sense so always we knew the family would be most dependent on what i earned. Is that why he was usually the one to get home first to let the daily nanny go home? His school day finished at 5.30 although he often worked in the evening. I always tried to get home for 6.30 too and two parents at bed and bath time is much easier when you have a large family than just one. My father read stories to my brother in ebd at nightw hilst my motehr did us girls. I can't imagine being with a man who didn't do that kind of thing and who assumed because I was female I would always get back from work first or whatever.

i think the main thing if you work is sorting out who gets back first in the evening and perhaps alternating that and if it's your night and he can't do it then he arranges a babysitter and you just choose not to get involved in that at all as it's his job. Enabling male behaviour you don't like is very common amongst some women.

DaddyJ · 02/03/2009 13:24

My definition of sacrifice is 'giving something up that is really important to you.'

There are things that I quite fancy (Audi A5, spending all weekend on my hobbies,
spontaneous City breaks) and won't be able to indulge in for the time being because of family commitments

but family comes first. I find it rewarding putting family first.

To reiterate my point from the other sacrifice thread:
Parenting should not be about sacrifice
and if you find yourself becoming resentful
you need to change circumstances or attitude.

Meglet · 02/03/2009 13:30

Haven't had time to read whole thread but YANBU. When we had the DC's DP's life carried on as before, while mine is just relentless hard work with the DC's or working PT. He wasn't willing to let me have equal time to myself as I was a mum and shouldn't have any time off . We've split up now , unsuprisingly.

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