Was this a reasonable punishment?

[mouseling]

DS1 aged 5 told a girl in his class that she would die before him. She cried. As punishment DS1 missed his lunchtime play and spent all afternoon in the headteachers office. Do you think this was reasonable punishment?

Well I really hope he enjoys it (on Monday ) and that the teachers there are nice There's a lot to be said for going to your local school and having local friends to play with.

I hope so. We just have to sort out our house problem now. It never ends!!

I agree with others - you need to get the full story surrounding when and how it was said - and also if there is a health issue with the girl - as that would make a big difference.

Ask the teacher if she could just talk you through the thinking behind it so you can understand it and come up with the best course of action yourself with DS also.

Sorry I haven't been around much - we have got family staying with us this weekend.

I only gave the basic facts in my OP as that was the issue I wanted clarification on in my own mind before I went for my meeting with the Head (and those were the facts as given to me by the Head).

I don't think DS1 at 5 had any real understanding of what he said. My guess is he was possibly trying to sound 'cool' in front of older classmates? I am obviously sorry that another child was upset by something my DS said but I am sure there are many worse things said by many children in the course of a school day that do not result in more than half a days punishhment.

However those of you who guessed that there may be a bigger picture were right. The bigger picture is that DS1 has been unhappy and unmotivated at school since xmas (co-inciding with the absence of his regular class teacher) resulting in a general deterioration in his behaviour.

I became concerned before half-term as he was becoming increasingly reluctant to go to school and his mood and behaviour were going downhill at home as well. So I approached the school and began to get bits of information in dribs and drabs.

I have been in to observe in the classroom and I booked the apppointment with the Head so feel I have been fairly pro-active and supportive.

I have asked the Head (in the absence of the regular class teacher) to consider and help me address what has caused the deterioration in his behaviour. I do feel he needs clear boundaries regarding behaviour but simply clamping down without addressing the root of the problem does not seem like a recipe for success to me. In fact I think it is further demotivating. There is no support for him to try to change his behaviour but he is being watched like a hawk. I feel like he is being set up to fail.

I feel for you about the sudden change in behaviour, As you say, it might be linked to the change of teacher. Is his regular teacher going to come back or has she/he left for good?

I think you are taking the right steps and if you have already told the school about your recent concerns regarding DS, they would be fools not to take that into consideration and help him having a more positive approache to school rather than stamping on him with size 11 shoes IYSWIM.

I really hope everything is going to get better for him and that he will more confident. I realised with DS3 when we had similar changes, it was indeeed because he lost confidence after an incident and then was very "defensive" all the time I suppose to avoid further similar incident accuring. The problem was that it made things worse until we actually got to the bottom of what was troubling him.

You sound very supportive of him, just carry on like this, get involved and insist you need the school help, not judgement to move things foreward. Best of luck for the meeting with Head.

Thank you, Gorionine. The regular teacher is coming back tho not confirmed yet when. In the meantime I fear DS1 has been 'labelled'.

It does sound like they have marked him out as a 'trouble maker/naughty child/disruptive influence' (whatever) and are now 'on' him for the slightest thing. This is not going to help anyone. I hope when you meet the Head you can talk this through with him/her and get back to a good starting point (where he is not automatically assumed to be causing trouble).

I am sure you have already tried, but getting to the bottom of it from his point of view seems fairly critical here. The only way to do this with LO (3) is to talk 'around' it, talk about the other children, what happens when 'they' are naughty, are 'they' missing the teacher etc, it works for us and might work for you?!

Try to find something for him to look forward to going to school for (not easy by now I'm sure!!).

Hopefully the old teacher will come back soon.

Good Luck - let us know how it goes.

Thank you ChippingIn for your thoughts and ideas - will give the talking 'around' and 'something to look forward to' a go.

Doing my best to plan something to look forward to each day this week and focus on the one (!) positive thing that I can think of at school this week - something in fact that I requested to happen. He has had a lovely weekend at home but has cried tonight thinking about going back to school tomorrow. So hard

I agree mouseling that clamping down on him isn't the way to go. Can you ask to hear from the teacher who is currently away from school about her views on his behaviour? Perhaps when she comes back she'll pooh pooh any suggestion of him being labelled as a trouble maker and he'll be able to slip back into his more settled former ways.

One of my DS's classmates headbutts which causes much more fear amongst his class mates than a subject like death which does need including in a well rounded KS1 teaching programme.

Thank you Homebird8 for your thoughts. I really appreciate you taking the time to consider my situation when you have had such a difficult week.

Young children speculate about death at a certain age. Dying will occur in exact order of birth, in our house at least. Therefore, whoever is oldest, will die first, followed by the next oldest, in a neat and tidy order. It sounds as though your DC asked another child who was older, in or to determine which one would predecease the other, in an innocent childish fashion. From your OP it sounds as if the school have translated this into something ridiculous. It is possible that there may be more to it than this, but your post suggests not.

HappyCrappy I really think you may well have hit the nail on the head in understanding his train of thought - thank you.

mouseling - hope it helps. Wouldn't it be great if only schools had the same mindset as children?

I agree with you Happy, this is pretty much what I was attempting to say in my first post but you did it so much better.

It can be hard for adult in general to keep a child mindset, but for teachers, it should be second nature as they are in DCs company all day!

mouseling - how was he this morning? Have you seen the head yet?

Meeting with the Head was last Friday and was so disappointing and demoralising I can't see much point in pursuing that route although may write a letter as a follow-up to that meeting. I have a meeting with the SENCO this week as my next step.

Do you think my expectations were unrealistic in hoping that the Head (in the absence of the regular class teacher) would want to work alongside me to address what has changed/gone wrong to cause such a deterioration in my DS's motivation and behaviour at school?

Unfortunately it seems like the school have got the wrong impression about your concerns. You want to know why he is misbehaving and try and deal with that. They just want to make misbehaving as unappealing as possible for him. (Hence the overly punishment)

I hope that the SENCO might be able to help - is there anybody else you could speak to in a practical way, ie TAs etc that are more likely to be able to give you an idea of what sets him off and what is upsetting him most? Does he spend time in childcare? Is he happy there, and it's just school that bothers him? If so that might point toward the academics being what is distressing him (some children find the learning process and failure very difficult) and it is a coincidence that he has found things harder when this teacher left - or it might be that the way that this teacher handled things made him feel better. It's worth talking to him about that kind of thing.

Sorry - loads of stuff you've probably already thought of, but figured it was worth another perspective. Good luck with the SENCO.

I find it really that the head did not jump at the oportunity to help solving the situation, regardless of whether the main teacher is back or not. Usually teachers complain that it is hard to get parents on board and involved with what is happening in school with their dcs. It does not make sense to me for them to react like that and not even try to see DS/your POV. Surely if your Ds feels put down and you feel he is being unjustifyingly labelled (which is how I wouold see it in your shoes) it is in the best interest of the school as well, not only yours to act and take measures if they are needed.

I always tended to think that change a child from school was a bad idea when things can be discussed. Reading your story and scrooged one, I am mellowing towards parents who make that sort of decision. My dcs and I are fortunate to have a school where so far every little worry could be sorted calmly over discussion with either teacher or headT. Shame it is not like that everywhere.

BTW what is SENCO?

Gorionine SENCO=
Special
Educational
Needs
Co-ordinator

I was the SeNco at the preschool i ran,
Hope that helps!

thanks chickydee.

Mouseling, who contacted senco, you or the school?

Thanks Gorionine for still being there! And Laweaselmys for your perspective - it hadn't occurred to me that the Head might have misinterpreted what i was saying but it is possible.

I contacted the SENCO (a member of the teaching staff) because when I walked out of the Head's office I felt nobody else was going to take any positive action.

Having read through your posts I so feel for you mouseling as my son is also 5 and has been in trouble at school for minor things and I too feel he is being singled out as a trouble maker. He has been sent to the head for singing a xmas song and adding the word WILLY, also sent to the head another time for pulling faces while he should have been eating his lunch- all in my opinion way over the top. What happened to children being children and silly/innocent remarks should be seen as just that....surely? I have had ongoing issues with his teacher who seems to be quick off the mark to tell me what he's doing wrong (disrupting classmates when he should be doing his work) but when I asked what reward system was in place for good behaviour, she could only provide me with a group treat of 'choosing time' if the whole class was good over a period of time. After speaking to other mums and a teacher friend I asked if his teacher could put some sort of contact book in place so she could let me know every day exactly what his behaviour has been like and if there has been good behaviour I reward him at home with stars on his reward chart, resulting in 10p a sticker at the end of the week. Since trying this for the last month I have really noticed in an improvement and he has been trying really hard. His teacher is still quick to write down negative comments but I feel at least he is getting the recognition he deserves when he tries hard. I think carry on being supportive as you are and make sure he knows he can turn to you, because with my son it got to the stage where he didn't even know why he'd been sent to the head in the first place. It's heartbreaking when you have a happy child who suddenly doesn't want to go to school and becomes anxious about it but it sounds like you're doing all the right things and yes definitely keep focusing on the positive. I buy my son a pack of 'go-go's (pocket money toys) for every 20 stickers and he loves it so much as he can see the results of his good work and behaviour.
Hope this helps

Charlie and mouseling, both your sons are very fortunate to have you as mums!
It shows that being positive gives better results than other methods.

I hope the meeting with the SENCO will "unknot" this situation for DS and for yourself. Do you mind letting us know what happens?