to think that day care centres or 'nurseries' should be banned?

[Goodomen]

Having spent some time working (doing supply) in several different nurseries I have been appalled by the treatment of the babies and and young children.

The babies spend most of the day crying, desperately wanting to be held or have some kind of one to one attention.

They are all forced to 'nap' at the same time whether they are tired or not.

They are put in highchairs and fed one by one with the poor children at the end of the row crying until it is their turn to be fed.

The worst part is when the parent arrives to collect their child and asks how they have been they are told 'He/She has been fine, had a lovely time' even if the child has been crying all day!

Why oh why would anyone out there child in such a place?
If you have to work get a childminder!

my sisterslad is in the nursery she manages, as was ds1 when he was briefly in ursery

I had total confidence thank you in my sister

cruelOP imo, designed to make mums feel like shit

Iloved my CM,in the end best for us but you have to find what suits

Isn't a Childminder running a business for profit?

My DD was in nursery from 6 months for a year. I recognise a lot of what the OP describes but feel that some of the things she describes are just part of how an institution operates. For example, they will end up doing nap times together, but this does not mean they will force a child to sleep. DD would sometimes sleep due to baby peer pressure. Other times she'd miss her nap because she doesn't sleep when the nursery nap is scheduled, so was grumpy. I don't think of that as abuse tho.'

I don't think nursery care is ideal but sometimes there isn't a clear alternative. It's hard to get a childminder. I think they're only allowed 1 baby. I rang round stacks of them and all were fully booked!

Yes, Stewie, and thanks for the history lesson

What has happened over the last twenty years, maybe twenty five, is that mortgages are now based on two people earning.

Prior to that, a mortgage was generally based on one person's earnings. This was so that one person could stay at home and look after small children.

Yes, women have always worked. My mother set up a hairdressing salon in a spare bedroom. I clean for a living, generally when ds's father comes home from work. Sometimes I take him with me. I clear £200 per week, after tax, and I don't need to put him in nursery at all.

He goes for the free 12.5 hours, but he doesn't particularly like it. He just endures it.

As I said earlier, we're all on a treadmill now, and it isn't remotely civilized.

Hey Goodomen thanks for your apology for the wording

Touches a nerve for me as my two go to a nursery

I understand that everyone holds strong views on it but I'm just trying to do my best and not feel too guilty or freaked out

Soz for the sarcasm

My experience of baby rooms is that babies are put down to nap when they're tired or when parents have stipulated they must nap. Toddlers will often have a set nap/quiet time (12-2 usually) and are encouraged to sleep during this time. Even at the most rubbish nursery I've worked in they are patted/rocked to sleep and not left to cry though.

How could a childminder, assuming they're looking after more than one child, spend all day holding a baby?

How could a mother with 2 under 3 (plenty of them on here) spend all day holding a baby?

Maybe the likes of me who deign to plan to have children in an area with few/no childminders (I could only find one registered locally...and then I found her Bebo page, erm no thanks ) should just keep our legs crossed.

As for daring to breed when your family can't be supported on one salary. Just who do we think we are?

THOSE nurseries aren't a good idea for a pet, let alone a child. Why haven't you reported them??

As to WHY parents would use them, well obviously they don't know what's going on do they? Or do you really think that every parent that used those nurseries couldn't give a fuck about their kids?

To be honest, you're just as much a part of the problem if you just stood by while the carers lied to the parents and haven't done anything about it

Here here Mrs Gravy

I really wasn't intening to be cruel although I can now see that my OP would worry parents with children in nurseries.

I am not a nursery worker normally. I was a primary school teacher but after taking a break to stay at home with my dcs I am finding it hard to get back into teaching.

I therefore do supply while I am job searching.

I started this thread because i was shocked at my experience in the nurseries but in a detached way as I was/am interested in why people would choose nurseries over more personal child care.

I didn't think about those who would find it hurtful and that was a mistake and I am sorry.

Surely we can all agree nurseries as they are now aren't ideal though? I know any criticism of childcare can seem like a criticism of parental choices, but it is an important debate to have!

Childcare is so important, and most childcare in this country is not good enough! I love my job, I love working with children, but things need to change - nursery care needs to improve, wages need to dramatically improve etc.

Nearly every parent who uses a nursery will claim their nursery is great and there are no problems, but from my experience on the inside most nurseries aren't good enough, especially for younger children.

I guess it comes down to, is it possible to criticise nursery care without criticising parents who use them? I understand where you're coming from Goodomen.

Well, our lives aren't "ideal". Sometimes we just have "good enough". That is true for many areas of parenting.

Ds is happy at nursery. We don't live close to grandparents, we couldn't find a local childminder. We found a nursery we were happy with (small number of under 3s, drop in any time, happy to work with your home routine as it goes) and that was good enough.

Goodomen, have you reported these nurseries? I used 2 different nurseries, I had my own reasons for preferring them to childminders or nannies. You make the best childcare choices you can, you trust that your children are being well looked after. It's worrying if nursery workers who are "appalled by the treatment of babies and young children" just let the nurseries get away with it. Please, report them.

Goodomen i think some of your findings doing reflect many nurseries.
I did find the two girls who ran the baby unit where i put mine excellent though.
I still see them now and chose not to send dd2 to nursery after they had both left. I did see these as 'personal childcare'.
I do think every nursery is different but some procedures happen pretty much everywhere i would guess.

Coming in late here and no views on nurseries, but why is Twinkle so vehement re childminders?

And here's the problem: nursery nurses could be paid better, ratios could be lower, but then.... I couldn't afford to use one.

It's very difficult.

Goodomen I think that's bollocks quite frankly. You seriously expect me to believe that you said 'nurseries' should be banned in the title and then 'Why oh why would anyone out there child in such a place?
If you have to work get a childminder!' and you didn't think it would upset, worry and offend people?

I love mumsnet I really do - the difference of opinion, the honesty, the variety of experience - and then I come across a poster like you - apparently ignorant, stupid and insensitive - but thinking you can get away with upsetting people because you're 'interested in why people would choose nurseries over more personal child care.' That's crap isn't it - you're just stirring.

The nursery my DCs went to wasn't like this at all. I know because I used to wander in and out unannounced whenever I liked and never saw anything like this happening.

There were 4-6 babies in the baby room with 2-3 staff. It was in a converted domestic house. They could sleep more or less when they liked, and as far as meals were concerned, the kids all sat together around tables with little napkins on their knees, and it resembled family mealtimes, with one adult per mixed age table of about 4 children helping them eat nicely and so on.

The nursery nurses were very cuddly and always had one or two babies on their lap or hips. They were genuinely fond of the little ones IMO. We still see them from time to time and they always ask after the children.

At playtime the younger babies sat out in buggies whilst the older children ran around and played on trikes and so on. It was a bit like how you take little groups of children down the park. Crawling age babies had a special area inside and outside to get a bit of exercise and play with each other.

However this was an independent nursery and not part of a chain ...

Of course she's stirring, NL.

That's what life's all about, surely? It has initiated a debate, and for the most part, I would say that people agree with the broad thrust of her post.

My gripe with the nursery system is not personal at all. I just think, as a society, we've got ourselves into a sorry state where it's a necessity, and not an option.

Nursery care really should be an option. Current economics have made it a necessity for many couples.

Northernlurker, at the end of the day you are right. My OP was insensitive. Sorry.
Obviously I have not experienced every nursery in the country.
I just shudder at the thought of my 12 mth old dd being somewhere like I have experienced.

Maybe I have tarnished all with the same brush.

Please no-one feel guilty because of this,

I wanted to highlight that we need better childcare facilities, not blame the parents.

I disagree that people agree with the broad thrust of the post - iyswim.

Ah! lovely, and more lovely

Goodomen, you're cool.

Northernlurker, you're cool.

Now I got to bed and read a cool book!