To think that dh should deal with night waking

[doggiesayswoof]

DS is 9mo and has started waking at night - teething I think

DD (4) sometimes gets out of bed too but is usually quite easy to settle again.

DH is SAHD, I work full time.

The norm just now is for us to be awake for about 1.5 hours from 3am onwards (not every night, I hasten to add, but quite often).

I think that during the week DH should pick up DS and settle him quietly and as promptly as he can - that's what I did when I was on mat leave and DH was working. At the weekend it's my turn.

Instead DH seems to expect that it's a team effort and we should both be up... he also gets very grumpy and stamps about the bedroom, and gets pretty impatient with DS, thus ensuring that I am wide awake and angry.

When DD is up it's nearly always me who sorts her out and actually I don't mind that so much, she always asks for me anyway.

DH is at home with DC today knackered. I am at work (lunch break now) knackered. I think we need to have a talk about how we handle this. IABU?

it can be a symbiotic thing within your relationship in that neither is more important and one is enabling the other, but that relationship isn't going to work externally. It is just a fact that only one of those jobs is bringing cash into the family to pay bills and the pragmatic thing to do (especially in the job market right now) is to protect that income.

Any amount of sleep deprivation affects performance negatively. The weekends are time to attempt to redress that balance, and I do think the working partner should help on a bad night, but generally? No.

Leo9 I tend to agree with you. It depends on the (outside) job.

It also depends how old the children are (can SAH parent actually get any rest during the day?)

Having worked and stayed at home, I do know that at least when you are at work you can go to the toilet on your own/finish a cup of tea. Will the tiredness created by being the one who mostly gets up lead you to want to kill your children?

'any amount of sleep deprivation affects performance negatively'

Yes I'm sure you're right; but as adults who choose to have a child, this is one of the things you know you will have to deal with and there is a big element IMO of having to just suck it up and deal with it; find strategies to do so and basically work hard to minimise it.

I don't think the answer is to transfer the sleep deprivation to the person who is caring for the child!

It is exhausting doing all the nightshifts with two DCs - for the first 3.5 years I did them all and it is very tiring. I still do most of them and in an ideal world would do all of them. In hindsight, it may have been better to alternate them so that we both had some rest during the week.

Whilst your work might feel more 'important' - as others have said, being with small children all day isn't always a party and I am sure he will interact with them better if he's not shattered all the time.

When our dd's were little, DW got up during the week and I did the weekends, unless it was after about 5am during the week when I would do it as I get up at 6am anyway.

There's no right or wrong - whatever works - and to those who say 'it's all equal' that's ballocks, I'm afraid, because feeling dozy or falling asleep during the day while at home on the sofa is not as much of a problem as doing so in a board meeting; or worse, while operating heavy plant or driving.

but my point is if people alternate and take one night each, your sleep deprivation is not so bad anyway. I've been working alot of years and TBH you could happily doze off a lot easier and with less damage ensuing in a board meeting, than you could with say, a baby and a toddler awake and at large!

Brain surgery/astronauts excepted I think most jobs can be coped with, with a bit of night waking, if it's shared out.

And the assumption that you are 'on the sofa' at home is an unfair one - for many people that is simply not the reality of a day at home with young kids

Leo9

I agree with you again. Going out to work means you can get away from the 'cause' of your sleep deprivation. Stay at home and the resentment can build. My 2 DS were 2.5 years apart and I think you need a lot of your faculties to be able to cope with toddlers. When I look back, I do think that a lot of my difficulties with that period of their life were down to sleep deprivation alone.
Obv. my choice to have that age gap, but being in that position, you just have to get through it as a couple.
OP's hubbie may not be being passive-aggressive, just at the end of his tether.
(OP, you have my sympathy too

Oh, and while I'm on it, just keep an eye on the teething thing. My second was 'teething' for months on end (fair enough), but in the end (giving him medised every night!), I took him to our nice GP, who suggested we had got into a pattern. I did (painful) controlled crying in the end at 18months. Solved in 4 nights!

Leo talks sense.

If I ever "dozed off" on the sofa (although in reality it would be more passing out than dozing off) my toddler would probably brain the baby and do some damage to himself within about 2 seconds. Take this from someone who as a toddler ended up with a pair of scissors in their eye - "dozing off" is not an option.

OP, you could be me...

DH was working flat out, 7 days a week for 16/17 hour days, I wasn't working. I just automatically did night shift from the day DS was born although to be fair, I did expect DH to do the odd feed or nappy change, for example if I wanted to go in the bath or if I popped to the shop or was in the middle of cooking the dinner. To be fair to DH, he did kind of do this, but it was not without sighing and grumping around the place.

Yes, I could appreciate that he was tired, had had a long day etc etc but I tended to think that he would enjoy spending half an hour feeding the baby or reading a bed time story to DD, especially as he had been out of the house all day.

Anyway, since the beginning of January, I am now working 5 days a week as a TA in a local reception class. The hours aren't particularly long, but I have to get up at some ungodly hour to make sure the DC's are washed, fed and dressed ready to go to school/the CM. DH has now decided to drop down from 7 days a week to 3. Again, fair enough. But...

He has gone from being a workaholic to being the laziest git going. Until recently, a friend was taking DD to school and I was taking DS to the CM before getting to work. The arrangements in place for DD had to be changed because of the negative impact they were having on her, so naturally, I asked DH to help out in the mornings with school run and getting DS where he needs to go. He does it, b ut not without a full on strop. This doesn't sound too bad, but when I discovered after about 3 weeks that what he was actually doing was doing the school run, then coming home and going back to bed, often until it was time to collect DD from school. This makes me mad because the idea of him cutting down his hours was so he could get things done around the house and so he could concentrate on the college course we are both doing at the moment.

Up until DH was asked to do the school run, I was working, dealing with the morning routine, and doing the night shift. Yet when DH was working it was me who did it and he would tell me it was down to me because he had to work.

I am hugely miffed because now, I work all week, sometimes staying late (unpaid) then I come home and I have to do dinner, bath and bedtime routine. He has got better and will help out on the nights I am working but on a Thursday night, it is my turn because he has to work Friday. I then do night shift and childcare and housework all weekend, including Sunday night, because although he hasn't got work on Monday, he is "tired and stressed" from work all day.

I wouldn't mind if he actually did a bit around the house or actually did what he said he was going to do and spent some of his time doing his college work. But no, I get the pleasure of cleaning the entire house from top to bottom at the weekend, when actually, all I want to do is spend time with my kids, who I rarely spend time with during the week because of work (unless you count the night shift ).

So, in answer to your question, I definately do not think YABU.

I have tried to talk to DH about these things because they are starting to get me down. I finally discovered his true feelings the other night when his mother came for a visit and the house was in a state. He was banging and crashing around, throwing the obligatory strop. I had sprained my ankle the day before so was in agony, hence the lack of jobs done around the place. So, I jumped up and hobbled around, stashing things all over the place so it looked decent. He came home from picking her up and was surprised the place was so tidy. I explained that I had hobbled around stashing things in places like the oven and he thanked me and told me he didn't want his mum to think badly of me because domestic chores are a woman's job .

Oh OP I think that's terribly unfair on you. YANBU!

I am a sahm and always do any up at night stuff.

I must admit when dc were babies we used to share a bit more (we have twins) but even then I did most of it iirc.

Dh is v good, but I think that's fair as he has to be in work next morning often in meetings and presentations.

If we're in the middle of a big problem ie sick everywhere, someone in extreme pain or it's all kicking off big time, he'll help out, but thankfully that's rare.

Up for bad dreams, a spoonful of medicine or a wet bed etc I don't need or expect him to get involved.

I will never for the life of me people who will put up with utter cocklodgers like this.

Or people who willing have kids and then act like one when it comes to doing the work that's involved in bringing them up.

YANBU.

You said 'during the week' when you work.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Lol @ cocklodgers I don't know what it is but it's a great word!

some people can be so literal

'on the sofa' in this context means 'in the safety and comfort of your own home', as opposed to (for example) behind the wheel of a 7.5t lorry. How would you feel if your DH was a driver and fell asleep at the wheel of his truck going round the M25, after spending four hours awake during the night?

I am aware that staying at home is tiring and stressful but do not try to tell me that there are absolutely no opportunities to rest - not sleep, rest - during a day at home with younglings. There are, if you want there to be. If you want to be a martyr, fill your boots, but don't whinge.

to the OP - YANBU - we did exactly what you are suggesting and it worked fine.

SS - kick his fossilised arse for him, hard - 'women's work', my ballocks, that bullshit should have died in the '50's.

I don't think stay at home parent should be taken literally either. Children have to be take to and from school /playgroup/wherever, shopping has to be done.

To be honest I don't think any of these situations are ever the same and so many factors have to be taken into consideration

sault, I don't think there's any difference in the 7.5t lorry situation or the SAHP situation; being in a car transporting a toddler somewhere and being utterly sleep deprived is just as dangerous though I concede a lorry will do more damage - but the principle is the same.

I also don't agree that it is being a martyr to not be able to grab much rest at home with 2 or 3 kids who don't have rest or naps themselves. It's just reality for many parents. Of course for some there IS a chance to rest but not all.

IME there is far more opportunity for 'rest' at work!

Nothing I've read so far has convinced me it shouldn't be shared duties!!

hmmm, so SAHP who drive their (often skriking) children around don't need sleep?

And any man who told me that domestic chores are a woman's job would soon find himself looking for another woman to do them for him.

YANBU.

I don't understand why some people think that it's necessary for both parents to be up??

Whether it's a 'strop' or not that is making your DH noisy at night, he needs to stop it. It's childish and it's not helping anyone.

I think the SAHP should do the lions share of getting up in the night - but not all of it. However, I'm a light sleeper and wake anyway, so don't really see the point in also waking up someone else to deal with it.

OP - I also think that your DS is playing you like a fiddle Teething is not that regular - habit is .

SecretSlattern - kick some ass - HARD.

Leo9

There's a world of difference between someone who drives/operates machinery professionally and a SAHP. And I'm not saying that working parents shouldn't do the nightshift at all; they should do so on their days off do that the SAHP also gets days off.

BB - what's skriking? Sounds painful...

Expat - he shouldn't be looking for a woman to do them for him unless she worked for Molly Maid and he paid her. Lazy fucker should learn to clean up after himself, there's no fucking excuse, this is 2009 FFS and blokes who expect to be waited on hand foot and fingernail make my piss boil.

TBH a car is a lethal weapon in the hands of someone dreadfully sleep deprived, just as much as a piece of machinery or a van is. We're all in our cars daily nowadays (ok, most of us!) and SAHPs are not going to NEVER transport their kids around because they didn't sleep last night.

your distinction is a false one IMO. Those operating machinery/driving for a living have break times during which they can rest, eat, drink coffee. Yes, so do some SAHPs have this opportunity.

Still seems to me there's no argument for NOT sharing out the duties.

As I said before, if they're shared, both parties are less tired anyway....

Unfortunately health and safety law applies to people who drive/operate professionally.
It does not, however, apply to SAHP's who are required to exercise their own judgement. SAHP's in most cases have transport options (note: I said MOST cases) whereas someone who is paid to drive/operate plant does not. If a driver/operator turns up for work unable to function they are sent home, quite often without pay. Which would you prefer: a DP with a full pay packet or a decent night's kip? Driving breaks are there to provide rest from the intense concentration required when driving, not to catch up on missed sleep. Drinking coffee just to stay awake when in charge of a 45ft artic? Get real.

If you knowingly drive your kids around while unfit through tiredness then you are putting yourself and your dc's at risk. Don't. Do. It. It's as bad as drink driving and just as inexcusable.

And for pity's sake, will you at least acknowledge that I have repeatedly said that duties should be shared insofar as taken on by the working parent on days when they aren't working, thus allowing the SAHP to catch up on rest?

my point is that if parents mostly share the duties from the outset, the working parent (even if working on this machinery etc) is NOT SO SLEEP DEPRIVED AS TO MAKE THINGS DANGEROUS

OK?

and TBH the majority we're talking about on here are going to offices where the most dangerous thing they're in charge of is the photocopier. Let's not get dragged down a blind alley here. the principle of sharing, is a good one

IMVHO, if I'm allowed to have one......

Sault... exactly how many of the working parents we are talking about here drive artics?? FGS. Expat said he would be looking, not he should be looking... big difference.

Leo - are you saying that you think that parents who share the duties might not be so sleep deprived as to make things dangerous?? I'm not sure you have explained your point clearly at all & PMSL as to having an opinion... hmm... generally not allowed unless it agrees with OP and/or people going down blind alleys....

ChippingIn

I am having little vignettes pop into my mind of all these thousands of MNers "ok me duck, I'm off to drive the articulated down the ice road"