to wish I hadn't given son the MMR?

[hytter]

I read everything, spoke to everyone, felt like I was doing the right thing, now 1 week later he has a temp of 40.3, been sleeping for 2 days, crying, unhappy, moody, cross etc etc.

I am exhusted, worried he may "regress" like I kept reading..........what have I done......

hytter - you wouldn't be wasting anyone's time.

The MMR can make a few children feel really quite unwell about 10days later, better than measles/mumps or rubella (I've had 2/3 then an MMR and my DS is getting the MMR!)but still pretty rough.

It could well be another infection that's a coincidence and you might never know for sure. Only a few ear infections need antibiotics, most baby bugs (and most adult bugs) are viral and respond to calpol and love.... but that doesn't mean you can't come and talk to us if you are worried. Even we get worried about our own kids sometimes when we know they are ok and need a friendly ear and a second opinion. If he's no better and you are still worried make an appointment to see your GP for a check-up and a chat.

hope you are both feeling better soon.

a doctor :D

and for what it is worth, my very healthy, normal 1year old has had a fever for at least 5 out of every 7 days for the past 2 months

Hi Hytter.I think you should take him to the gp's tomorrow and get him checked for your own peace of mind.It is an awful dilema[this so called choice we have isn't it?
You made your decision based on the facts/info and love you have for your son...just like others who have chosen for their dc's to have or not have the mmr.FWIW Your ds sounds abit like my son..ear infections,colds etc.But definitely go and get him checked out tomorrow.

YABU. Don't be hard on yourself, you did everything (and more) that you should have done in terms of research. You did what you felt was right given the available information. You can't do more than that.

Take him to a dr, see what s/he says. I'm sure he'll be fine...

I also think the advice to see a GP is good because if you think your child is having a reaction to the vaccine then it should be reported. We are all told to expect reactions to vaccines but anything more than a bit of grottiness should be reported.

Depending on the sort of doctor you have, he or she may not be keen to report a reaction and may try to tell you that nothing is wrong and that this is nothing to do with the vaccine. This may well be the case but a truly honest and responsible doctor should assume that any illness following vaccination is related to that vaccine. This is common practice with most pharmaceuticals but some doctors are not keen to do the same with vaccines.

You say that your child is often ill so if the GP gives you any hassle or tries to tell you that you are overreacting, I would firmly remind them that they agreed to vaccinate a child who is often poorly and that you want the follow up and surveillance your child deserves.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things re vitamins and omega oils and not using paracetamol.

Good luck and let us know how you are getting on.

Beachcomber,

I haven't read all the thread but what is wrong with using paracetamol?

Paracetamol depletes glutathione which is key in the detoxifying process that takes place in the body after vaccination. If your child is having a reaction the last thing they need is paracetamol even though it might make them feel better by suppressing symptoms. It also messes around with the immune system although we don't know a lot about how exactly which is not a good idea when we have just messes around with the immune system by stimulating it with a vaccine.

The study mentioned in the article below is one of the first to enter the public eye which connects paracetamol with immune disorders such as asthma and eczema.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article4783572.ece

(I'm not saying that the article in question relates to Hytter's thread, I just wanted to demonstrate the known effect on the immune system IYSWIM.)

Sorry for lack of punctuation and typos!!

Many thanks to everyone, my DS is back today! Had a terrible night ear pulling and crying but woke up the boy we knew 3 weeks ago! Happy active and a little monkey.

I do think the MMR knocked him badly and has left me unsure if to vaccinate against Chicken Pox in a months time.

I have also asked if its ok to see another gp at our practice. The other gp's have children and I feel they listen and care far more than my current gp who always makes me feel terrible.

Interesting article Beachcmber, thank-you.

glad to hear ds is feeling better, my dd has always got a throat infection or cold so I know it can be difficult...

That's great news.

I would most definitely give you DS a good long break before vaccinating with the chicken pox vaccine as it is also live.

Do you have a particular reason for wanting him to have it?

He tends to go really down hill after a bug. For example his tonsilits (sp?) put him in hospital with a temperature of 106 which they couldn't get down, he was had broncalitits (sp?) at 6 weeks old and was in hospital on oxygen for 10 days. His reaction to the MMR has led me to think he would have been VERY ill had he caught the real thing.
He catches everything and is always very snoty, not eating as a result and being only on the 2nd percentile he hasn't got much weight to play with!

I guess what I'm trying to say Beachcomber is that I don't want to him suffer with anything that could be avoided. Hope thats the right thing to do?

Sounds like you and your son have been through the mill rather. My DD1 was poorly and skinny when she was younger (she is 5 now and much better) and I worried so much about her.

I can see how you want to avoid your son getting anything avoidable and it is so hard getting balanced advice about vaccination.

The following book is a good read on the subject and the Dr who wrote comes highly recommended for getting good guidance on what to do for a specific child. I know a couple of mumsnetters have seen him and were very happy with him.

www.amazon.co.uk/Truth-About-Vaccines-Without-Knowing/dp/1903933927/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1 233877083&sr=1-1

Beachcomber - I was just about to recommend Dr. Halvorsen's book so am glad you provided the link.

I think it's really difficult to get impartial advice about vaccinations - you certainly don't get it from your doctor and health visitor! They are always pro vaccines.

My doctor told me I was being really irresponsible for not vaccinating my kids (this was well before the controversy about MMR). I informed her I didn't think I was being irresponsible - on the contrary I was being extremely responsible by trying to get more balanced information.

However, unlike KerryMumbles, who is obviously very passionate about NOT vaccinating, I wouldn't criticise parents who came down on the side of vaccinating their children, but would hope that they were open-minded enough to read up on some alternative scenarios. It's hard though to go against the "experts" and you have to be very confident in your own mind that you have made the right decision.

At the end of the day, if my children catch a disease and suffer some really bad side effects, I have to accept responsibility for that. On the other hand, parents who choose to vaccinate their children have to accept responsibility if their children have a very bad reaction to the vaccine itself, or indeed end up with compromised immune systems leading to possible problems further down the road. Not an easy choice in my book.

Glad to know he's feeling better

Have only skimmed through the thread so don't know if someone else has already posted this but you or someone else might find it useful:

MMR side effects

pre school booster side effects

Actually, you said you've read through all the info so sorry if I'm just covering old ground

You can listen to Dr. Halvorsen here:

www.cryshame.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=80

I think he gives a truly balanced approach to vaccinations and I'm sure the uptake would be even less if parents were given his information to read & listen to as well as the government's!

There's also the USA Center For Disease Control's information. And they link to a side-by-side comparison on the clinical studies done on the risks of MMR.

Quackwatch are interesting on the MMR debate, too.

The Guardian's "Bad Science" Ben Goldacre discusses the media approach to reporting the MMR controversy here. He actually writes a lot on MMR.

The World Health Organisation doesn't believe any risk exists, either. They aren't so sure on ultrasounds, for example, so they're hardly cavalier in their conclusions.

In the interests of full disclosure, Halvorsen owns a private clinic selling individual shots. And it's not terribly scientific to call a book with a controversial theme "The Truth" about anything, IMO.

Hytter, my son was very unwell a few days after receiving his first mmr jab. His temp went up to 40.8 and he was hospitalised for a week. I think the general feeling that it was coincidental and was most likely to be viral.

I delayed his second mmr until he was about 7yrs old to make absolutely sure that his immune system could cope.

He is now a very healthy 12 year old!

True enough Qally - and he's also selling books. However, as far as I know, all this came AFTER his discoveries on vaccinations.

And there are plenty of other doctors, scientists out there who would just like more complete information to be given out and it not to be so one-sided.

I don't think the info is one-sided, tbh. There's just an overwhelming preponderance of studies/evidence saying it's safe - for example, Japan actually withdrew the MMR for a while over (unrelated) health concerns, and not only measles cases leapt after that time, but autism cases increased, too. Which does rather imply that it isn't a factor. (They reinstated the MMR.)

It must be appalling to have a child regress that way, and I am not for a minute saying that those parents don't have every right - probably some feel an obligation - to understand why, and seek to prevent that happening to others. But the evidence that it's MMR related just isn't at all strong.

The japanese study was flawed.

They withdrew the MMR, but gave all 3 singles on the same day, so might as well have given MMR.

So no conclusion can be drawn from that

Apparently the mumps component, which was the issue there, wasn't administered? It's interesting to note that, by this evidence, the single jabs emphatically aren't as effective against measles as the MMR.

Hi Qally, I wasn't specifically thinking about MMR & autism. I happen to have 3 children who weren't vaccinated, two of whom are autistic, so I know it can't be the cause in all cases and I honestly don't know if there's enough evidence to say it's linked at all.

I just can't see why childhood diseases like measles are now called "killer" diseases when they were considered to be pretty harmless only a few decades ago (I happen to have caught measles twice!) And please, do we really need a vaccination for chicken pox?

I do understand that if your child is the 1 in 100,000? to get serious complications or even die then it's devastating but is it really necessary to vaccinate all children? And what are the long-term side effects of doing so? We're never told. Why not?

Also, I've questioned for a long time the need to vaccinate all children against Rubella when it's only pregnant women who need to worry about it. What's wrong with vaccinating only girls say 13 yrs and above?

I just think those precious resources (and it does boil down to money) could be used elsewhere.

I think it's a question of perspective. Infant/childhood mortality has fallen and fallen, so we calculate risk differently. I mean, we were never put in carseats and we were mostly fine, and it just wasn't seen as risky. That doesn't mean it wasn't, relatively speaking. A family friend lost a daughter to measles in the 1950s, and statistics do show qite serious complications arose, as well as deaths. I just don't see why not to vaccinate against something that can have awful outcomes, if doing so is possible, and rarely, rarely harmful. And if everyone did, measles cases would be incredibly rare.

Rubella - the problem is that not all vaccination is successful, and if everyone is vaccinated, those few people who are vulnerable are unlikely to meet and infect each other. That's the principle that eliminated smallpox. I managed to evade my rubella as a kid, because I was needle phobic and didn't know why it was important. At 19, when I found out, I went and had it done. I didn't want that responsibility, of infecting someone pregnant and causing birth defects in their child.

The chicken pox jab is harder, I agree, bcause it's a relatively mild disease for most kids, but my understanding is that it's dangerous for immune compromised children, and adults and children in contact with them are accordingly vaccinated. However it's not a standard vaccination, because the risk to adults of shingles is calculated as more serious. That seems sensible.