to be annoyed that people on MN are so against routines?

[Maria2007]

Well, I might be flamed for writing this, but recently I've gotten more & more annoyed by all the anti-routine opinions found on MN. So- am I being unreasonable to be slightly pissed off when I read (again and again) advice to 'co-sleep / wear in sling / bf on demand' when people ask particular questions about their babies (e.g. about sleeping / feeding patterns)? Am I being unreasonable to think that this style of parenting doesn't suit all parents (or doesn't suit all babies for that matter)? Am I being unreasonable to feel that GF (and other advocates of routines) have been unfairly treated here on MN, however much one may disagree on various points in their books (and anyway who said we have to agree with every single thing they write)?

Some background. My DS is 6 months old. He's still breastfeeding (and I plan to continue for as long as I can / he wants). He is also still sleeping with us in our bed (from 11 pm onwards). He's a happy, healthy baby. Until 4 & a half months he was breastfed on demand (with various problems, which I won't go into). Until that point we were getting little or no sleep. I was so exhausted that I decided to work on a routine & in desperation bought the GF books (which until then I had been completely dismissive of). Surprise surprise. Putting DS on a routine (I did it gently & gradually, before anyone shouts at me!) worked beautifully. His sleep has improved dramatically, his breastfeeding has also improved. My milk supply has ALSO improved, making me wonder about the usual advice to feed completely on demand after a certain age. DP & I never felt we pushed our son in any way when putting him on this routine, in fact, it felt completely natural, we just tweaked things here & there & gradually things became better & better.

I simply don't believe anymore that 'all babies fall into a pattern in their own time'. I also don't believe anymore that 'it's normal' for babies to not sleep for months & months, that 'it's normal' for babies to feed all through the night (the thing people say about 'babies having tiny stomachs' also doesn't convince me anymore, not after a certain age, not when they're- for instance- 7 months). We still feed DS at 3-4 am, and we think that's normal for breastfed babies at 6 months, but I simply cannot imagine staying at the place where I was, feeding him all through the night, every 1-2 hours.

Anyway. Just really, honestly, I'd like a discussion on this, because it's something that baffles me. I truly believe I'm a much better parent, more rested, more calm, less irritable, now that we have some predictability and a pattern to our day. I also think that if I had a second child I'd keep an eye on the pattern of their day from earlier. Can't really think why all the anger & disapproval towards GF & other routine-advocates. You may not agree with all their points, fine. You may not like their style of writing, fine again. After all, it's only common sense that each parent creates their own version of a routine for their child, you wouldn't follow any style of parenting blindly would you. But to be so against routines in general is a bit baffling to me, and I've heard it so many times here on MN in recent months, that I honestly would like to discuss it a bit more...

why annoyed though - I mean what's the point?

you did what was right for you and your lifestyle and I wouldn't judge you for it.

Are you feeling judged by people on here for some reason?

yeah god, if only everyone agreed with you eh??? you pooor, poor lady.
other people on a website having alternative views??? what is the world coming to?

although, you know, I wonder if so many people are against them because, I dunno... they're crap?
just a thought

I personally don't find MN against routines, just against very strict ones in which parents are made to feel they are doing something wrong if their child is awake at 9.15am or asleep after 3pm.

god it's bringing back sweats just thinking about that book.

Can you tell me what GF stands for?

If you wanted a discussion then you probably should have put this in chat...

It's good that you have found a way that works for you, that way happens to be a routine. Lots of people on here are quite happy not to have a routine.

Back to the original question, I think you are being unreasonable as I think you actually get both points of view (routine/non-routine) regularly stated on MN, you just happen to see the non-routine more, maybe because you are feeling defensive about putting your child on a routine?

Do you feel guilty or something? I can't really understand taking such a defensive stance when you haven't been attacked?

Plenty of people on MN use routines, CIO etc. Not everyone agrees but I like to think we mainly respect each others choices.

No one is going to get into a debate about the merits of GF with you, I'll tell you that now.

I don't think anyone is against rountines actually, but a good number of parenting books do demand blind obedience to their edicts, and when this fails people, the book makes out it is their fault for doing it wrong. People post on here in despair asking what they are doing wrong, and often get the very reasonable answer that what they are doing wrong is believing the stupid book that, for example, any baby will sleep through the night by 12 weeks with correct treatment. I'll come out right now and say that is bollocks, Baby Whisperer. Utter arse water.

You might have difficulty believing that it is "normal" for a baby to nurse all night, but how many babies do you have? I only have one and it was completely normal for him.

I can assure you a 7 month old's stomach is pretty small compared to yours.

What are you trying to achieve? You sound very angry and it's not clear to me why.

Juicy GF is Gina Ford, contented little baby author. People either love her routines or can't abide em.

I think essentially no two babies are the same.I treated both mine the same (Exclusive bf/co sleeping).DS got into his own sleeping through the night pattern at about 16 weeks.DD on the other hand was a much more "difficult" baby and didn't settle for months.I just did what I felt best,and in the early weks that involved co sleeping and feed on demand.It seemed cruel to leave them crying when little.I never read any books be it GF or hippy lentil weavery knit your own organic yoghurt ones.I guess I just winged it.I think that all you can do is whatever preserves your sanity and also keeps the little one as happy as possible at the end of the day. (Mine are 3 and 5 now)

Fair questions... Well, I suppose I just wanted to have a discussion on this, because I often read things such as what Thisisyesterday wrote, that routines are crap. (And by the way, Thisisyesterday, I have no problem whatsoever about people having alternative views, which is why I started this discussion, I actually was fairly ambivalent about this whole issue myself, so wanted to see what other people thought).

I wouldn't be annoyed about it, but just put your Pov and experience across in reply to the OP in the type of thread that you cite.

Personally I struggled with trying to impose a daytime routine upon dd when I started to wean her at 6 mo, it made me feel utterly miserable, but I wish that I had, earlier than that, tried to get her into the habit of a daytime nap that at least could take place in her cot as even though I loved sleeping/lying with her when she was a teeny baby I got fed up with it as she got older.

Horses for courses imo and what you did clearly worked for you. I'd also really agree with you that being a good parent because you feel rested is important.

Well, I'm not flaming you you have the right to your opinion. But since you have ASKED the question...

imo, you are being unreasonable to be angry because basically, what that implies is that you are angry that people have a different way of seeing things and doing things than you do.

That's totally unreasonable of you! People can see things the way they want to - and if others don't like routines - even if everyone on MN doesn't like routines (which isn't the case btw!) - that's up to them and it doesn't hurt you in any way, or make one jot of difference to your life and your choices.

Live and let live!

You like routine, it works for you - great! I am pleased, because whatever makes a parent happy, is good for their child. But if others don't feel that way, it shouldn't matter to you because they are not trying to make you change your life and your parenting, are they? They are just giving their opinion. As you are free to give yours on the very same threads.

Like I say, you are as free to post on threads advising routine and giving advice on how to go about it, as others are to advise the other way.....Perhaps that might be a good idea, if you think routine is good? There are probably many people out there (reading MN, not trying to say 'out there' as in 'piss off' ) that you could help.

If you feel there's a bias, that might help redress it?

And there's other reasons many mners are anti-GF!

This is a thread about a thread... makes sense now. See MamaG's thread on active convos.

Don't let it get to you - you've found a way through which suits you and your baby and that's brilliant. Many babies DO find their own way into a routine - I fed on demand and my DS went into a routine from about 10 weeks and at that point I could finally say "this is his routine".
He continued to wake at night - once - usually around 4.30am until he was 8 months and from then on went through the night. I imposed NO routine - he slept in my bed and I carried him in a sling at times when he was fretful. I am far too disorganised for any routine but DS got there eventually anyway.
Honestly don't let this get to you - routine worked for you but many don't like routines (or like me are far too disorganised for them ) and they will do the things advised here until their babies get into a routine all of their own.

Once a child gets to school a routine is needed to ensure that everything goes as it should. If they havent learnt to sleep properly etc then it affects every part of their life.
The world runs on routines.
But do agree that a strict routine is not the way forward. Flexability is key for a happy family.

I have 3 and have tried both ways. Routine works better for us.

Each to their own

Just do what works for you, why bother what anyone else thinks, not everyone is against routine, so dont be having a go at all MNers, we are not all earth mothers who flounce around with a dc attached via a sling, i couldnt survive without having a routine and i dont give a feck what others think

You will get flamed for being so angry about it when there really is no need

I haven't read your whole post because I like DD and DS to be in bed and lights out by 8.30pm.

I absolutely love routine. And I think babies and small children absolutely love routine.

I have demand fed all my four whilst very young but have still had a strict bedtime and bathtime and set mealtimes once they are on solids. We even go for our walk at the same time every day.

I think the cosleepers extended breastfeeders are loonies but no more than they probably think I am a loony with my routines.

Do what you think is right. No need to convince anyone else.

Message withdrawn

maria, i never said a word about routines my dear, and as far as i can see nor did anyone else on the thread

i just said what worked for me, which is to go with the flow and use a sling, and i will continue to advise other mothers to try it if they are having difficulties

i don't barge into threads where the mother is saying "i love my routine, it works really well for us" by saying she should put him in a sling

i DO offer it as a suggestion where the mother or baby seems to be having problems - because for many many people, this works and makes life a lot easier

i do wonder where you are reading the implied criticisms - anger and disapproval? because they don't seem apparent to me at all

I don't think most mumsnetters are against routine as such, just against the idea of any outside routine being allowed to interfere with parents working out what suits them. And it is Mumsnet practice to say when you don't agree with something: doesn't mean everyone who voices a disagreement is so against something. They may just be saying "this might work instead"- nothing wrong with that, is there?

I nearly messed up trying to impose a breastfeeding routine on my first, disabled but undiagnosed child; what is probably a good idea with a healthy child ended up in a very dangerous situation for her. With my second child I just found that his routine had to be slotted around so many other factors (older child's timetable, travelling a lot at this time, needs of other family members) that it was difficult to be too rigid about it.

oh. A thread about a thread?

I fucking HATE that! Say it on the bloody thread! Why people start threads instead of debating their point on the thread in question I do not know!

I didn't say GF did. I said the Baby Whisperer did. Her book does say that. It also attempts to pigeon hole all babies into one of (I think) 8 personality types, which governs how you should treat them.

Utter drivel.

Yes, georgimama, I hate that too, that feeling that you get from some parents that they are failures because their baby doesn't do as the book tells them.

I refused to read any such books as I just felt that I would be the best judge of what would work for my dd. Now it sounds like was Maria was a good judge of what was best for her ds and it happened to be a GF routine from around 6mo. Fair enough, but that's all to do with Maria not GF imo.

Hey - I'm pro routines and pro bottle feeding (if it's the right thing for you). I can see the benefits of co-sleeping and not co-sleeping. I think slings and pushchairs both have their useful and practical places when it comes to getting your baby around.

But most of all I'm a big fan of the philosophy that what feels right for you is right for your baby and the rest of your family.

So live and let live I say - to you and anyone else who tries to enforce their beliefs on others. We're all intelligent adults who want to do our best, whether that's breast feeding, bottle feeding, staying at home or going to work. Co sleeping or controlled crying. Whatever. You have to do what you feel is right. And bugger anyone else who tries to make you feel crap about it.