to be annoyed at the leaflet telling me how happy my kids will be if i go back to work?

[neenztwinz]

I got this with my child benefit letter yesterday.

It is a leaflet about affordable childcare, and the pic on the front is a cartoon of some kids playing with a train and it says 'we play with trains, mum goes to work - whoo whoo!'.

It says to me: your kids will be happier if you go to work.

To be fair, I noticed on the back it has kids playing with musical instruments and it says 'we do music, dad goes to the office, rat a tat tat' so i think it is just some poor puns on trains and music rather than kids going 'way hey - mum's gone to work!!'

But I still think it is a bit

Blueshoes - but that's the whole issue (I think). They feel 'obliged to go back to work' rather than it being equally respectable to instead stay at home to care for children

Nobody is obliged to do anything. It is all in their head. If they feel it is best for one parent to stay at home, then they are free to do so, whether or not there is affordable childcare out there. They don't need any external validation form govt or otherwise to do that.

Well, as a bit of both, I have to say that I though the leaflet was piss poor, too.

It left a nasty taste.

There seems to have been a temporal shift in government thinking over the last twenty years. I think they'd like to categorize SAHM's as unemployed, but haven't quite got the balls to come out with it.

I agree with blueshoes - I can't see why the govt needs to do anything one way or the other about SAHMs, as long as they aren't a financial drain on anyone other than their DHs.

I recently saw a documentary (here in Italy) about France, that linked its fertility rate - one of the highest in Europe - to the high rate of women going back to work after having children.
Italy's low fertility rate is on the contrary blamed on a very low rate of women in full time jobs.

As blueshoes said good quality affordable childcare is not set to force women to work out of the house. It is just another civilized way to support families.

I don't think anyone is looking for a validation from the government (although some financial assistance might be nice ).
Rather, it would be nicer if the govt didn't try to actively persuade us to go back to work.

But why the heck should the govt provide financial assistance to enable mothers to stay at home?? Surely the main beneficiaries would be families where the male partner was earning enough to 'keep' the woman at home anyway? Because presumably the govt couldn't pay mothers the same as they would earn if they went to work - or are people seriously suggesting that this is what should occur??

Yeah, sorry Blueshoes, I realise that goes back to the discussion we already had! But I only just remembered the Sweden thing when someone mentioned Scandanavia and what good childcare they have there.

Income tax is very high in Sweden (so the govt can pay for extended mat leave and subsisdised childcare and such things) so both parents probably have to work to afford to live. I don't believe that more women work in Sweden cos they would rather do that than stay at home. I think more women work cos it is too expensive not to and too rewarding (financially) to work.

The govt wants women (and men) to be in employment. More taxes, more services. It is a fact. As Podrick said below, it would be naive to think otherwise.

It is expensive to live in the UK just as much, without the benefit of affordable childcare though.

neenz, I don't know about the need for both parents to go back to work in Sweden. I have a Swedish aupair and she says her late teens/early twenties generation are not too fussed about finding employment and are dossing around at the moment. Her father was unemployed and just found a permanent job but there was none of that OMG, he lost his job, how are we going to survive? Her own mother did not work for years whilst the children were young.

I can only assume the social benefits under the Swedish system are very good.

hi jack: Neentz your twins are gorgeous!!!

I think the social benefits are really good in Sweden and to pay for that they need women to be in work I suppose!

A consequence of the high tax regime in Sweden is that the gap between the rich and the poor is much smaller than in the UK. Tax to rich to pay for generous childcare, parental leave and other social benefits. Also, what are minimum wage jobs in UK would in Sweden actually allow a person to reasonably support a family. My aupair's father is a janitor but he and her non-working mother raised 2 children in what looked like a middle class upbringing. Unthinkable in the UK.

neenz, you are right in that the availability of good quality affordable childcare in Sweden means there is very little of that angst you see on mn about women going back to work and leaving their children with 'strangers' who don't respond to them and damage them emotionally.

Swedish women just go back to work, I guess, eventually, after their extended maternity leaves. No fanfare, no over-analysing.

I think that the leaflet is patronising and irritating in tone. in particular, there is a strong implication that "early learning" happens in childcare settings. which is a load of old bollocks, imo.
it is all part of a bigger political picture, which increasing portrays looking after young children as a profession and something which can only be done adequately by the professionally trained, and that by keeping your child at home rather than letting them "make new friends and learn new things" in a child care setting, then you are disadvantaging them. they are not getting the best start.
which is insidious and damaging in lots of different ways, imo.

early learning only happens in childcare settings.

Wispa - I only said that some financial assistance might be nice (clearly lightheartedly too) - even if they did help out, I would only hope for something like better tax allowance for DP or even some kind of income support. Not a salary.

DPs earning 'enough' for SAHMs to stay at home is all relative anyway. For some people, 'enough' enables them to live very comfortably and not really sacrifice anything. For others, 'enough' allows them to pay the bills, and put basic food on the table. No holidays, no big presents and no hairdresser. It's their choice of course but it's important not to assume that they are all well off as very many are living very basic lives.

I think they should visit some nurseries and see what its like for alot of the kids.My dd goes just for 5 hours a week to socialise.It breaks my heart as everytime i go in i get some of the little ones come up and get upset as they miss there mummies.Mums go out to work as mostly they have no choice.The government should seriously wonder what effect it has on kids i personally think they should be supporting mums stay at home until there children start school

I must say that I'm not keen on the emphasis of "early learning" as well, I really don't get this British obsession about early learning.

I agree with MrsB's early post. As a mum who works I would think, ah, my kids will be ok when I'm at work. Rather than being happy because I am at work.

snuffyp, that is not my experience at my dcs' nursery. The other children don't blink an eye if I collect ds. I would wonder whether the children are otherwise being kept occupied and whether that is a good nursery or not.

In the UK, there are various programmes to combat the effects of the growing number of dysfunctional families, like the surestart programmes. Nurseries are supposed to shore up the learning gap of children from deprived homes who studies show are already behind middle class children before they start school. I don't think they are a comment on whether the government thinks non-nursery attendance would disadvantage a child from an otherwise loving and nurturing home.

Blueshoes, don't get me wrong, I'm a great admirer of Surestart programs, and as you know I'm a great believer in affordable childcare (but I do get when I hear the term "early learning", so much so that it took me years before I entered an Early Learning Center shop )