To take dd to town tomorrow for new shoes, despite being on the sick?

[mosschops30]

I dont think I am although I think my boss will think differently if anyone sees me.

I threw out dd's shoes before xmas, have beem ill for over a week and been off work, my boss phoned me today asking when I was 'planning' on going back despite me phoning on friday to say I wouldnt be in all weekend, anyway dd is back in school on Tuesday and has no other shoes she can wear.

So AIBU??

IF anyone sees you in town, you can just say that you needed to go to the chemist (boots) etc to get some more lemsip etc.

If you feel well enough to go into town then go. What are the changes of bumping into anyone anyway?

I used to be a nurse before I had children, and I can tell the doubters on this thread that it is perfectly possible to be up to a quick emergency dash to the shops and yet not up to working.

Nursing is a very physically, mentally and emotionally demanding job. It is also not a job where one can 'take it easy' when one first returns to work after sickness. The NHS is chronically understaffed, so any member of staff who is at work HAS to take on a full workload.

To be honest, considering that the NHS is all about looking after people who are ill, they seem to have little or no understanding of illness when it affects their staff. For example, I was an operating theatre nurse, and when I got chickenpox my manager was shocked at the amount of time I had to take off - my doctor told me when I would no longer be infectious and I stayed away from work until then because I didn't think it would be a good idea to be working over open wounds and handing the sterile instruments to the surgeon when still infectious with chickenpox!

Thanks for the support from those who have worked or are working for the NHS.
Have just spoken to a friend who says that once you have phoned in sick they are not allowed to phone you at home (e.g. checking up on you, and thats what yesterday felt like), although I dont know how true that it.

I do work in an area where bullying is a huge problem, luckily I havent experienced it from any of the staff although I know others do, out of 10 people thats started at the same time as me, 4 have left and 2 are actively looking, says a lot doesnt it

Bullying is rife in the nhs. Always has been. Unfortunately this tends to happen when professionally trained people are managed by people who have no medical training or experience and little understanding of what the people they manage actually do.

I have in the past year and a bit had 3 periods of sickness from work: 7 weeks (following op and side effects of after treatment) , 9 weeks (2nd op and medication after), and then 4 weeks (side effects of medication).

I was well enough to do stuff - shop, go out with friends and family, go on holiday, etc. I was not "well" enough to be at work, esp in the environment where I worked at that time. My consultant and GP both supported that.

So, the answer to OP - depends on why you are off but quite possibly no - YANBU.

moschops - I have heard that too - no contacting you

3littlefrogs I have come across far more bullying (often low level but persistent and unresolved) within nursing, particularly middle management, and particularly in the acute setting than any other NHS staff group. This could be because nurses form the largest staff group, but I also wonder whether it is related to the very strong heirachy within nursing. There seems to be a very strong conformity message, and threats of "unprofessionalism" in particular appear to be very common, and very undermining. Certainly from a risk management point of view it is often difficult to encourage a non blaming culture (doctors seem much more likely to provide mutual support in such situations, which can cause problems too). This seems to go all the way to the NMC (I don't know if the new body is different) which is much more likely to strike off nurses than the GMC doctors (they tend to recommend education whenever possible, and sometimes when it is not).

One thing the NHS is incredibly bad at is recognising that management, especially people management is very difficult, and often people are promoted without any support or training to roles they then find difficult. The assumption seems to be that you will just learn on the job, which is not fair for the new manager, and certainly not fair on those they manage. Also operational management roles are very high pressure, often with far too much direct line management (I think it is very difficult to manage more than about five people directly if you also have a role yourself, and you want to do both things well). I know of people with twenty direct reports, and a clinical role themselves, and I just think this is undoable. Certainly it means that a lot of the professional development that managers are supposed to support (monthly one to ones, clinical supervision etc) go by the wayside.

mosschops you should look at the sickness policy for your organisation. All the rules should be set out there, and the policy should have been agreed by staff side (ie including relevant unions). I know in my PCT as a manager you are supposed to ensure the employee is kept up to date about what is happening at work (this is probably only relevant for long term sick though), and as the employee you are supposed to speak with your manager about arrangements whilst you are away. I have a feeling that our policy says you should do this for every shift you are absent from, but I don't suppose everyone follows this to the letter. Our policy says self certification for a max of seven calender days, and past that a doctor's note is required, but presumably you were only away from work until Sunday, and would not be claiming today as sick leave in any case? Those working a M-F week who were unwell Mon-Sat say, would only claim M-F as sick leave, and could do what they liked at the weekend, as that would be no concern of their manager. I guess if someone was always claiming a lot of self certified sick leave and then being spotted bungee jumping of something at the weekend then a case could be made against them, but surely on your rostered day off you can do what you like?

By mousehole on Sun 04-Jan-09 23:48:04

if you are capable of shopping then you are capable of working

This is definitely not always the case!

I think you're right nooka, on wards the bullying is often insidious but always there and can go either way, sometimes a senior member of staff may be bullying you but I've been severly bullied through an idiot n/a on nights who made my life hell through her connections with the ward manager (who was an unprofessional, lazy, nasty peice) just because I got the sisters post and one of the other witches on her coven didn't (also thick,lazy and nasty). I would have taken it further apart from the fact that her husband had kidney cancer and unlike her I wasn't that spiteful.

Bullying not a problem now in CAMHS but management is hopeless, I'm managed by a consultant psychiatrist and a physics graduate who's been on the NHS graduate management programme, his clinical knowledge re CAMHS is nil and her knowledge re effective management is nil and she's crap at containing her own anxiety.

I'm only staying in the NHS to get another stint of maternity leave out of them and then I'm off, I've slaved my guts out for years so might as well get what i can out of it.

YANBU!! You have a sicknote that signs you off work, not from being a mother. Your children come first. If your boss has a problem with that then they are the unreasonable one. The world does not stop because you are ill, children still need looking after and who's to say you couldn't have nipped out in your dinner or on the way home from work?

You've got a dh?
I thought you were a single parent!
Why on earth didn't you send him into town with her a few days ago then when it was obvious you weren't well?

I am not a nurse but I have been a patient. If you turned up to do a night shift on a ward when one of my nearest and dearest was on a ventilator and you had so much as a sniffle - I wouldn't be over the moon about it tbh - and if I was a patient myself -I wouldn't want you looking after me (no offense here!) if you were not well.

Part of your job is infection control and being 100% on the ball for the whole 12 hours of your shift - therefore IMHO you being off work until you are totally well is essential to the wellbeing of the ward.

Buying your DD some shoes that takes maybe an hour or so at most is a totally different ball game to a 12 hour shift

YANBU

Ummm
I find it really interesting that people saying that shopping is treasonable seem never theless to add an alternative that OP could be doing - like ' of course its ok - you could be picking up a prescription'.
Which kind of suggests to me thattheir heart isn't really in the shopping is OK thing.

TBH I would just be pissed off if I were the person covering the work. If you arewell enough to shop you may not be well enoiugh to work. But surely you are at least a little obliged to be actively getting yourself better rather than doing something that isn't an emergency ( like food or a prescription).

ROLF at treasonable.
I am sure it isn't that serious.

I think that's what I think too pagwatch. Unwell is basically in bed. But I was brought up by a bit of a dragon. Family rules tend to be only ill when you are really ill (I do recognise that when working in a clinical setting this is not the bench stick to use), and then get better properly before going back to work/school. I was rather assuming that mosschops was a single mum, but if not then I think her dh should have got the shoes in over the weekend, leaving her to recuperate without worrying about anything else.

Minx I agree that the graduate management programme is a useless preparation for operational management (I do have some sour grapes though, having been rejected by them a long long time ago). Bright young things are great, but some things really need some life experience, and managing people is one of them.

I have been managed by a medical scientist, a GP, a radiologist, a nurse and two public health doctor. Their backgrounds and roles certainly had an influence on their management styles, but I don't think it was the most important thing. Mostly it seems to be about temperament, experience and confidence. I have been fairly lucky I think. I did have one manager who had a foul temper, and once threw a chair at her poor PA though. I am not sure why she wasn't summarily sacked to be honest. I'm assuming that it is because she was a director (and bloody difficult to everyone around her!)

I don't see why there is an issue here? If the op isn't supposed to working tomorrow anyway, why does it matter? If she is spotted then she can honestly say "Yes i have been off sick, i am better now and i am not due into work today anyway so will be returning Tuesday when i am due to work."

I recall though when i was 13, my mum giving me some money and going and buying me own school shoes. I used to hop on the bus choose my own.

Pagwatch - the issue with not being well enough to go shopping but well enough to pick up a prescription is based on the assumption that 'going shopping' means heading off for a prolonged mooch round the shops, checking out the merchandise in a range of stores, window shopping, perhaps stopping for a coffee and a sticky bun - whereas 'picking up a prescription' assumes a quick trip out to pick up something absolutely essential.

Of course YANBU. I would love to see the people who have criticised you attempt to do your job when in the best of health, never mind recovering from flu. I teach and it is horrendous being ill and being on your feet all day with barely a minute to sit down. It must be horrendous to do your job ill (never mind the risk of infecting someone else).

I admire you for doing such a difficult job in the first place.

Moss, mine are in primary; I hadn't realised your daughter was 13. I can well imagine the horror if you suggested slippers to a 13 year old! She would never forgive you and be reminding you of if it 20 years time.

Perhaps you should have gone out in some form of disguise to be safe from confrontation but YANBU.

sunny

"the issue with not being well enough to go shopping but well enough to pick up a prescription is based on the assumption that 'going shopping' ..."

Actually no it wasn't.
That may be your take. It wasn't mine.
The difference (in my head )is between going to get a prescription which is vital to aid recovery or going to get shoes for a DD which er isn't.

But I wouldn't have that problem as at 13 DS was perfectly capeable of being given the money and going to town to buy his own shoes. But that surly is a different matter.

Love Badassmarthafocker btw. Totally disagree but you have to love that name.

Lol at badass, and some of the other comments on this thread.

Well I did go into town and get dd's shoes, was there for 56 minutes excatly and felt terrible, spent rest of day indoors.
The plot thickens now as I went in for my study day today, and by 12 was feeling awful. My tutor said I should come home. Which I have.
I am going to have to phone in sick now for tomorrow, which will make people think Ive done it to extend my annual leave, which starts next week (but no shifts after tomorrow due to only working 3 shifts a week).
I am not well enough to do a 12 hour shift tomorrow, simple as that, and those people who said going into town was a good indicator of whether I was better was right, and Im not better by a long shot

btw pagwatch I will not send my 12.5 yr old into the city centre with money to buy shoes.
IMHO not safe!

Thats fine Moss - you know your area and your child best. My DS1 had to take train to school when he was 10 so town centre is not a problem for him.

Thats why I said "I wouldn't have that problem".
We all have different circumstances.