to not be insistant that the sexes are equal?

[elmoandella]

why do we have to be equal in all aspect of life??

we are not the same.

women are better at some of life's tasks. men are better at others.

obviously there are exceptions to this.(women with high levels of testerone for eg. tend to have a more "male" attitude and way of doing things)

i was raised by a liberal mother who did everything for herself. raised 5 kids while running a business. with no childcare and as a single parent for the most of that time we were growing up.

i was encouraged to do follow lead and be successful.

however, it seemed a very unhappy life.

i have to ponder the idea that perhaps she would have had a much more satisfactory life if she hadn't been so determined to be equal and get her own way.

is it really so terrible to just accept women may sometimes, in certain fields of work, get paid less.

I also dont see why so many women strive to equal there partner in pay.

what is wrong with your other half being the greater earner. it is half the battle then when you go for maternity leave. you will be able to relax a little and enjoy it. than worrying that the main salary is cut drastically as the female is the higher earner.

i know a few on here will want to flame me. but i would actually like to see a reasonable debate on why so many women are so determined to do everything.

tell me why you want equality so badly.

convert me!!

You must be talking bollocks too then dittany because i was agreeing with what you said in my post

I don't get it. Surely there's variation in both male and female populations in terms of all the attributes discussed here? So it would be foolih to make a decision on whether somebody would be better at a particular job than another person based on sex. No? People just want to be judged on their own merits and not some population mean.

Bubbaluv - I am not talking about the Health and Safety concessions that need to be made to pregnant women.

I am talking about women who whinge and moan and make a big deal of being pregnant as if they are the first person ever to give birth, and expect to be able to slack off and shift the workload onto colleagues. And yes, i have experienced this in the workplace.

Childcare is a parenting issue, not a women's issue. And again, I am not talking about the rights that currently exist to request flexible working, I am talking about things like a member of my Dept who started turning up for work 10 minutes late because she was taking her child to school and didn't want to pay for childcare. And another woman who insists that she always takes time off for her kids' medical appointments because she thinks it's her 'job' and not her husbands.

Women like that are letting other women down with their sexist attitude every bit as much as sexist men in the workplace.

'I think you're living in misogyny-world myself violet. '

• good post dittany, usual lack of reason or evidence base.

My point is that people are people. Some people are brilliant at their jobs - women and men.

Some people are crap at their jobs - women and men.

Some people are sexist - women and men.

I like to judge people as people, not on the basis of whether they have a cock or a fanny.

Which is why we need more woman to want to do these jobs so we can give men a good kick up the backside and prove that we as women are just as capable as they are at doing the less glamerous jobs. We don't really help ourselves by choosing all the "pretty," so to speak, jobs do we?

Where on earth does this idea of women choosing the pretty jobs come from? Baffled.

I think the fact that women are in boardrooms, in court, in parliament and in the newsroom helps us enormously, actually.

"For every man who creates the 'glass ceiling' stopping a woman getting to the top, there's a woman whinging about pregnancy/childcare etc and expecting preferential treatment to others in the workplace"

I don't think she put it very well - but this is the reality. If you want to get to the top in most careers you have to give it your all. For women with small children, unless you are Xenia, this isn't generally very easy. So at least these days we have the choice. Flexible working or CEO. Is this misogynist really?

Surely it is a matter of what is more important to you as an individual? I would rather be at home as much as poss whilst dd is little than aspire to big promotions. And I speak as some with a career. When she's a bit bigger I may reevaluate.

Didn't need to read much dittany to see the lack of reason

Can you explain precisely what is 'sexist' about my posts about pregnant women?

I am writing from experience.

You state that you know of two situations where women have been discriminated against in the workplace by men. I accept what you say - and I think it's terrible.

I have experienced pregnant women (a minority, not most) who have whinged and moaned and expected other colleagues to take on part of their workload. Why are you not able to accept my experiences? If you want an example of showing a lack of respect for other women's views then look no further than yourself dittany

dittany all i am saying is is if more women choose to want to do these jobs, there would be more of a backbone, more ground to stand on. At the moment it's easy for a sexist male boss to turn away the odd woman who bravely went for a male dominated job. I'm not saying this is right and i do think that it shouldn't be allowed and that people should be able to go for whatever job they please based on skill/qualification.

My point is, if more women went for these jobs, it wouldn't be as easy for men to discriminate (sp?)

I have experienced women who have milked pregnancy too in the workplace as much as i hate to say it.

Good, I'm glad you've agreed with me dittany that there are whingers and shirkers of both genders.

To add to that, i'm sure if men got pregnant thay would be the same, if not worse.

Both men and women can be sexist.

"A better argument would be that employers in traditionally male jobs should make more effort to reach out to women and other minorities."

Agreed in an ideal world yes. But i still don't think women do themselves any favours.

Yes men and women can be sexist. I have worked in places that only employ females. No idea why though?

I remember being stunned by this when i recommended a male friend for a job and one the women who worked there discretly told me they only hire women

That's shocking MsSparkle

Pregnancy can be fucking dreadful though. I have a very well-paid career but was bloody ill during my pregnancy and nearly lost my baby a couple of times. I think the idea that you should flog yourself to death to be considered equal is idiotic.

That doesn't mean you should be paid less though

Sorry I've only skimmed the thread. Very much agree with MI, Xenia, SGB and others. Why would I want to be unequal? Why should I accept things as they are? If women had accepted their lot all those years ago, you wouldn't be able to have a bank account, vote, own property. And so on...

I very much hope that your life circumstances don't change as you might yet find yourself striving for a decent wage.

And if the OP chooses not to work and rely on her partner's income that's hunkydory for her. But a bit off to then suggest that those of us who choose/have to work shouldn't get paid equal wages to our male counterparts.

I work in IT. As far as I know my colleagues don't use their dicks for work-related activities.