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AIBU?

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Original poster

Not to let my ex see the children this Christmas

103 replies

gemmydingdongbell · 23/12/2008 21:19

Ex hasn't been interested in or seen the children for months. He's missed birthdays, most access visits (arranged informally) doesn't phone or return calls.
However, a few days ago he has been calling frantically wanting to come for a day over Christmas (more so the day itself) to see the children saying that he has changed.
I've refused as I don't believe him and don't want him to ruin things. yet I still feel strangely guilty.
So aibu?

OP posts:
ThisMUTTIsJustForChristmas · 24/12/2008 19:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittleJingleBellas · 24/12/2008 21:09

"You are denying your children the opportunity of seeing their Dad"

FGS, he's been doing that all year.

She is not denying them the op of seeing their dad. 1) they don't want to see him 2) she hasn't said she won't let them see him, just not on xmas day.

Some of you seem to imagine that contact is an arrangement whereby the NRP can just breeze in and out of their children's lives as and when the whim takes them, irrespective of how disruptive and traumatising that is fro the children. Unfortunately, some NRP's seem to imagine that as well. Well it's not, in order for it to be beneficial for the children, it's got to be regular, consistent and predictable. It seems to me that some people are arguing for the right of NRP's to fuck their children around and treat them as afterthoughts, rather than a central plank of their lives. Why on earth would anyone think that's in children's interests?

lou33 · 24/12/2008 21:22

i'm applauding you ljb

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 21:27

me too Lou.

God my kids get upset enough when exH is closer to 6pm instead of 5pm (because of his work it's always "between 5 and 6" to pick them up), I dread to think waht it must be like for those children who's father are arses

CoteDAzur · 24/12/2008 21:39

gemmy - I would think you should encourage your ex to be more involved with the children. If he is claiming to be a changed man, that means giving him the chance to prove it.

Yes, there is the risk that it will be another disappointment, but there is also the possibility of a much better level of contact with the children.

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 21:40

Cote - I don't think anyone is saying don't let him see them at all - jsut not on Christmas day. If he really is a changed man then he can prove it on Boxing day and for 2009 and see them on Christmas next year.

CoteDAzur · 24/12/2008 21:46

I don't see why he can't see them on Christmas for a bit, if he really wants to.

What is the goal here? Better contact between children and their father (in which case he should probably not be discouraged in his "changed" ways) or Christmas Day 2008 going totally according to plan (in which case, don't invite the uncertainty of ex into the equation)?

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 21:51

I think the goal is better contact in the long run, so if he's missed that manyy birthdays and access visits to date missing Christmas is hardly going to be a big deal for the kids is it. It's just another special day without their father there.

Especially as one of the children has already said they don't want him there on the day.

If he's truly a changed man then he'll understand that because of the upset of lack of contact from him in the past the best thing for the children will be for him to see them on Boxing day (or thereabouts) and show for 2009 that he does want better contact with them. And that he does actually care about more than just seeing them at Christmas - then who knows maybe next year (if he can keep up the contact) the children may actually want him there on Christmas Day.

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 21:54

would you feel the same way if it was the mother that was the NRP and just decided to waltz in at Christmas, potentially not to see them again until next Christmas

CoteDAzur · 24/12/2008 21:55

What you say makes sense, but I would still wonder if refusing him this request might stunt his budding interest in the children.

"You can come for two hours in the morning" can be a compromise - he won't be there all day, and still have seen children on Christmas Day.

CoteDAzur · 24/12/2008 21:57

Yes I would.

Of course, our thoughts on this are colored by our own experiences. I've never been there personally, so perhaps can't imagine the hurt and disappointment that remains in the back of a LP's mind, which would prompt a "No" to a request like this.

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 21:58

I personally think a fair compromise would be to come over for a bit on Boxing Day - plenty of families (not just ones with a NRP involved) use Boxing Day to see family rather than Christmas Day itself.

LittleJingleBellas · 24/12/2008 21:59

Sorry, but to treat this bloke as if he's some fragile little flower who might be discouraged from pursuing the relationship he should be pursuing with his children if he can't see them exactly when the whim takes him, rather than when he ought to, is to fall into the trap of seeing the resident parent as being responsible for the conduct of the relationship with the non-resident parent. She is not, he is. She is responsible for facilitating contact to the best of her ability and as flexibly as reasonable. But it is NOT reasonable to intrude on someone's christmas day if you ahven't bothered to be in contact with them all year and she is not morally bound to allow him to do that.

If he is indeed a changed man, he will understand that he cannot simply get his feet under the table at christmas when he hasn't had any contact all year round, and he will be delighted that the offer of boxing day plus consistent regular contact is on the table.

But let's face it, there's not really much chance that the latter is what he wants, is there? The likelihood is that what he wants is a nice dinner. And when he's had that, he'll dump his kids again. And I really don't understand why some of you are arguing that this would be a good thing for his children.

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 21:59

not just the reiident parent's mind - but the children's minds as well IMO.

goldFAQinsenceandmyrrh · 24/12/2008 22:02

and now I will wish you a Merry Christmas as my DS's things aren't ready to take to exH' tomorrow afternoon for the night, my house is a mess and the presents need bringing downstairs.

LittleJingleBellas · 24/12/2008 22:06

Cote, if this refusal would stunt his budding interest in his children, then frankly his budding interest is not really worth a turkey bone, is it?

He is a grown, adult man. He is big enough and ugly enough to look after himself and to bloody well nurture any sense of responsibilty himself. The children OTOH, are vulnerable and the way he treats them could have lifelong repurcussions in terms of their sense of self-worth and self-esteem. And yet we're supposed to throw them to the wolves and hope against hope that this time he might decide they're interesting enough to have something to do with, and not leave them feeling rejected and let down, while we tiptoe around him in case not doing exactly as he says might stop him acting like a responsible adult?

lou33 · 24/12/2008 22:12

if any father was serious about building bridges with his children, he would be fully prepared to accept he had to tread carefully and show his commitment to them over time, not just by turning up with a handful of gifts on xmas day, expecting to be thanked profusely for pretending to give a shit on one day out of 365

findtheriver · 26/12/2008 10:03

Children's emotions are complex and there's a danger in one parent deciding for them whether they have the 'right' to see the other parent.

If it were always as simple as a parent being 'good' or being 'crap', then how come many children from split families actually have quite differing relationships with their parents? For example, I personally know of two split families where one of the children wants to see the NRP, and where the other child doesn't. The children have been brought up the same way, the NRP has been available to all the children for the same amounts of time, yet the children have formed their own judgements, which happen to be quite different. If the RP had not allowed access, then they would have prevented the children forming their own views.

It goes to show that even though the RP may think they know best, children will work things through in their own way. And their feelings may change over time anyway. This is absolutely about the rights of the children - and their individual relationship with each parent, not one parent making a blanket judgement.

At the end of the day, the parents were the ones who chose to have children with eachother - the children didn't choose their parents.

Original poster
gemmydingdongbell · 26/12/2008 12:10

Well, I did relent and he did come with presents for the children. He also tried to postpone late on Christmas Eve (after I had agreed to his visit) to Boxing day or even later. After I became very upset at what I knew would happen, he did come.
We are unlikely to see him much again I fear. I'm also quite saddened that some people seem to think his rights to see the children whenever it suits him and to let them down and constantly disrupt our lives should take precedence over the children's rights to happiness and security (and even my own). I'm eight months pregnant too, so help with our other children would have been appreciated.
He has decided as I have been well provided with money from him that that is enough.
I have heard promises before from him about changing, but they have all come to nothing.
My conscience is clear; I have encouraged, persuaded, even begged him to see the children and THEY know that, so they would never be resentful. I can do no more.

OP posts:
ninah · 26/12/2008 12:25

well done gddb for getting through it. Not all exs want to be involved with their dc and it's a hard thing to accept and understand. Having watched my ds suffer for a year without contact I understand where you are coming from. He nows sees him once a fortnight for an expensive lunch and outing but has very little in terms of time and hands on fathering. It has been painful for me to accept this especially when I see friends' dh's and their closeness with their dc but that's just the way it is and hoping for anything more has only ever led to disappointment.
Fwiw I think you have every right to run your life and dc's life the way you choose, as you seem to have sole responsibility for them, and if you feel more comfortable not inviting him to your home this is fine. I won't have my ex here because of the way he behaved at end of relationship, would be far too tense.
Good luck with pregnancy

LittleJingleBellas · 26/12/2008 14:01

"The children have been brought up the same way"

This phrase always make me laugh. FtR, children are never brought up the same way. Each child's experience of childhood is totally individual, your relationship with each of your children is totally individual. We never treat our children exactly the same, how could we, they are individuals and we respond to them and interact with them individually as they push different buttons at different times in us.

Anyone who thinks they treat all their children the same, is seriously kidding themselves. That doesn't mean it's wrong to treat each child differently; on the contrary, it's right to acknowledge their individuality and treat them differently, according to what's right for them. It's only a problem if one child feels less loved.

LittleJingleBellas · 26/12/2008 14:02

LOL I did bang on about individuality a bit in that post...

MsG · 26/12/2008 14:04

Hi gddb,

So sorry you are having this trouble with your ex. I don't think you sound unreasonable at all. You sound like a very loving mother who does her best for her kids and puts them first.

Good luck with the new baby - not long to go! I hope things work out for you and your ex grows up and manages to form a better relationship with his children.

xxx

findtheriver · 26/12/2008 14:42

Well I'm sorry the subject makes you laugh, LJB.I think it's a serious matter.
Of course each child's experience of childhood is going to be different, as every individual is unique. Which adds weight to the argument that one parent should not try to dictate the rights of the children. Because each child has the right to maintain a relationship with each parent.

nkf · 26/12/2008 15:09

Rights rights. On and on about rights. Sometimes people want a relationship with someone who has no intention or ability to be in one. People (including children) can bend over backwards to make relationships with other people (including parents). What use is "rights" as a concept here? If your father is an arse and, let's face it, some people are, is it really a good idea to encourage children to want something that he can't deliver.