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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what really is the majority social demographic on Mumsnet?

331 replies

CestNoel · 18/12/2008 11:23

I see soooo many threads along the lines of:

  • should I sack my au-pair?

  • anybody know any good cleaners?

  • my career is too important for me to go to my child's concert...

  • can I get free transport to a private school?!?!?!?

  • my dd has been given a non-organic fruit drink at nursery

  • drats. My new Boden trousers are too short.

And then, everyone is up in arms at the idea of spending £10 on a present to take to a child's birthday party and we have all sorts of suggestions as to how to buy something suitably non-tack like for about £1.49

Is the beauty of Mumsnet I suppose.......

OP posts:
TiggyR · 10/02/2009 13:58

These topics fascinate me! I would have take issue with Rempy's diagnosis of Geogimama's class, just a tad though. I think Rempy is spot-on that she is middle-middle class, but I don't think she is upper-middle, or ever could be. I think anyone who falls into the bracket of upper middle or just plain upper has been born there, and stays there to the death irrespective of what fate has in store for their income. They live by a quite bizarre and exclusive set of codes and ethics that are designed to identify them to one another, and guaranteed to out any imposter within seconds! They are the least socially mobile of the lot. A person born working class can drag themselves into middle classdom through earnings or education or both. Though if they earn a fortune but still behave in a resolutely working class way they will not be regarded by truly middle class people as MM, just as slightly embarrassing Noovs. But even this I find, is very much a relative thing, depending on the angle you come at it from.

I think the majority of people these days fall into the bracket of lower-middle class. They may have had working class roots but aspirations and opportunities (e.g. getting onto the housing ladder via buying their council house) have moved then on a few notches. Middle-middle class people will frequently stem from a MMC background themselves,though many of them are from a LMC or WC background. The reason they are the most difficult to define accurately is that they have so many groups and sub-groups and off-shoots! It's becoming increasingly difficult to accurately define a person's class (and thank God for that) as unless you are a polo-playing land-owning Toff or a member of Karen Matthews' immediate circle of aquaintances it can be quite hard to tell who has come from what these days. I am in agreement with the person who said that the most reliable social indicator is probably the newspaper. Or my personal class barometer of choice, the hairstyle....97% success rate every time! At opposite ends of the spectrum even faces can have the owner's class written all over them!

I think the reason it is so difficult to define someone's class is that ultimately it has little to do with their income. It's a quite deliciously intangiable set of criteria encompassing accent, values, standards, education, job, your parents' jobs, where you choose to live, how you vote, if you vote at all, how you choose to eat, where you choose to go on holiday, what you name your children, what you would and would not wear, how you parent your children, and in particular your attitude to their education, your attitude to money and conspicuous consumption, and a million other subtle and not so subtle indicators. If we wanted to reliably pigeon-hole people these days we'd have to give out multiple choice questionnaires then catalogue each each person on a points system!

ScottishMummy · 10/02/2009 14:24

the paradoxy about class,is that one may not see self as other's do.i can think of people i consider MC who vehmently state they are WC

it can be attitudinal
it can be financial
it can be aspirational

is it solely financial?a tube driver earns more than junior doctor/teacher.does that make the tube driver more MC

is it qualifications?does possession of a professional qualification make one MC

alot of it is in the eye of the beholder

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 10/02/2009 14:27

Tiggy - if I describe my hairstyle will you tell me

Poppycake · 10/02/2009 14:32

what if you don't have a hairstyle?

TiggyR · 10/02/2009 14:40

Poppycake - God, no, not in a million. Not while I'm sober, anyway. I've seen what happens to other people on here when the unwittingly out themselves as a bourgeois snob.. I read the thread from the poor girl who dared to say she found polyester sportswear unseemly. I think she's still picking out the tar and feathers now...

On the hairstyles, don't make me say it...you all know what I mean, (surely?) and if you don't then least said soonest mended.

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 10/02/2009 14:41

Go on, I never take offense at what anyone says to me - even if you said "you're clearly writing this from prison with that hairstyle" I would only laugh.

TiggyR · 10/02/2009 14:42

oops sorry, meant LauriefairycakeeatsCupid, not Poppycake

BitOfFun · 10/02/2009 14:44

Whatever happened to your relationship to the means of production?

ScottishMummy · 10/02/2009 14:51

what would socialist worker emoticon be?angst knickers in a twist?birkenstocks and pulses (fair trade lentils of course)

i recall SW from Uni- angst shouty bit bullying

TiggyR · 10/02/2009 14:59

Laurie, I'd love to honestly. You've no idea how much I'd love to...I'm bursting in fact. But no. Besides, you don't need me to. It's a game you can play yourself in the comfort of your own home. Just try to imagine superimposing any hairstyle from any guest on the Jeremy Kyle show onto Fiona Bruce's head and ask yourself would it cause us to have a Nationwide Nervous Breakdown? Of course it would.

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 10/02/2009 15:05

crap...my hair looks like Fiona Bruce's

At least it's far removed from a Jeremy Kyle mullet/bad highlights/pineapple on top of head

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 10/02/2009 15:08

Nope, my hair is a wee bit longer - more like Julia Bradbury's from watchdog

BitOfFun · 10/02/2009 15:10

I don't know about Birkenstocks and pulses SM... The emoticon would have to have a long scarf though and be smoking a roll-up while waving a placard and trying to make you sign a petition

ScottishMummy · 10/02/2009 15:15

just recall socialist workers who were really shouty.attended uni for 6hr week of lectures.rest of time boycotting canteen over fair trade monster munch or some other worthy socio-political cause

diedandgonetodevon · 10/02/2009 15:33

Surely you never really change the class you were born into?

Class hasn't really got anything to do with money- just look at all the footballers, who surely are in a sub-class of their own!

BitOfFun · 10/02/2009 15:34

Them were the days...

ScottishMummy · 10/02/2009 15:36

aye remember them shouting "free the 5Alive" "monster munch for all".fags and attitude

onemoretime · 10/02/2009 16:47

Diagnose me, oh MNers.

My father is a doctor and my mother is degree-educated and she basically gave up work to raise my sister and me. They both went to private schools. My grandfather was born in Northern Ireland and was degree-educated, his wife (my maternal grandmother) was a midwife.

I have a degree from one of the top universities, and earn as good as nothing. My sister and I went to one of the top private girls schools.

We do not own a car but lease one. It is German and new.

I vote Conservative and read the Telegraph.

We have a cleaner and one of our children goes to the local Montessori school

We do not have private health insurance but have paid many thousands of pounds in medical costs for our younger son.

We own several houses jointly with the bank..

Any money that doesn't go on the house, school or medical costs goes on holidays - we had six last year.

DH came from a slightly different background - he went to a private school as well, and to university but his parents are self-educated.

So hit me with it...

LightShinesInTheDarkness · 10/02/2009 16:55

You sound as if you have been very lucky, and continue to have a comfortable life. I wish you well!

mm22bys · 10/02/2009 16:59

It does seem like some on this thread have been very "lucky" indeed, but as you would no doubt appreciate, a survey such as this only tells one part of any of our lives....I am sure that very major significant factors / events have been "left out" by many of us on this thread!

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 10/02/2009 17:01

onemoretime - happy to diagnose that you are indeed in the class of a "fortunate fucker".

PortofinosDHwillDieIfHeForgets · 10/02/2009 17:02

I think the whole lot is complete bollocks and life is too short. Which probably says more about me than a long description of my background, education and career/current lifestyle.

PortofinosDHwillDieIfHeForgets · 10/02/2009 17:03

LOL Laurie

TiggyR · 10/02/2009 17:14

Onemoretime - you are quite clearly and straightforwardly someone who is is middle-middle class through and through, both as a result of your birth, and your current lifestyle. When I first started reading I was expecting some interesting dichotomies that might cause us all to question the classic assumptions but you are such an open and shut text-book case that I'm wondering why you felt the need to be 'diagnosed' at all. Methinks you know exactly where you sit on the class barometer, but thanks for sharing!

BitOfFun · 10/02/2009 17:30

Right then Tiggy...do me! Parents both very poor backgrounds (13 kids, holes in shoes etc) but bright and grammar schooled, dad saved up to go to uni and became an FE lecturer (redundant early eighties), mum similar, teacher training, became primary school teacher. There wasn't much money, no foreign holidays etc, but we never ran out of money for the meter IYSWIM. Education hugely important. I was state educated, bright, went to uni on a grant. Have been doing lefty/arty/minimum wage stuff ever since, my partner makes his living as an artist. I believe in the value of education like my parents did, but I'm not sure I wouldn't advise my bright daughter to do something more practical rather than get into debt with a degree. What does that make me, apart from a disappointment?

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