to think that teachers are allowed to actually have a life

[stillenacht]

Another post is getting on my nerves a bit - i hate the fact that because of our jobs (vocation whatever...) we have to be society's keepers and society's bitch. It truly pisses me off.

Of course there is and that's great. Surely no one can think I want only renegades?

I just don't like trying to make people fit into boxes and prescriptions of the 'ideal'. Especially not for that amount of pay and working conditions, which I consider poor given the importance of the job.

I actually think my pay is good, lots of people earn less and I can afford to eat, pay my bills, have nice clothes and a holiday. Don't really think my working conditions are poor either.

I dont think people only want renegades but there seems to be an idea that if you do things right or have high standards of conduct you must be dull.

Not at all and I've clearly let my post swing too far the other way. That's absolutley not what I think and am gratefull for any teacher who enjoys their job and feels valued as presumably that will translate into my kid having a great year at school. But the stuff about my school was just true. Honestly!

In fact my number one teacher from the lot was my geography teacher who was very very normal teacher type. She was the first person to say she could 'I can see your brain working in a very clever way'. I'll never forget those words or the moment I realised I wan't a loser like everyone around me and that if I plugged in my brain I could crawl off the treadmill I was on for many different reasons.

I feel compassion for those who feel they are being told they are not good enough for not fitting into a certain model. I can't imagine most teachers would teach entirely and only for the money and working conditions and holidays, you find the pay to be good, but it would be unlikely to be enough in it's self? So [I'm a bit green here I realise] my happy brain tells me that most teachers must feel a sense of 'wanting to teach'.

And to that I feel a sense of respect and grattitude, and so will always try to show respect and compassion in return.

I'm dullest person on the planet [tea total, non smoker, don' even watch telly etc] by the way. Used to have habits of all sorts but just too old and tired now. sigh.

End rant.

Good grief my english is awful! Typing too fast.

Your geography teacher sounds lovely

She was. She saved me!! Still LOVE geography too.

I remember she got PMT from hell [slightly off the point but in a girls school these things mattered].

I get PMT from hell as well .

I shouted at a class last week as was very hormonal and I caught a flash of looks go around the room that said " it is that time of the month just do what the bitch says"

LOL!

Re:OP- I think it's because people have a perception of "caring" professions, and expect you to love your vocation so much that you are more than happy to sacrifice any semblance of a normal life outside work hours. It is the same, I think, for nurses, doctors and us vets. Of course I should love animals enough to not mind staying behind for an hour to see someone's pet (which has been sick for 2wks) I should be happy to give up Christmas day with my family, and should be grateful to spend New Year's Eve operating on a dog that should have been seen 3 weeks previously- that's my job, and if I don't like it well....

The problem is that people in all professions are realising that their job ISN'T their life. If all the professionals who have the gall to get pissed off at certain aspects of their jobs chucked them, we would have a national dearth of doctors/ nurses/ teachers/ vets/ carers etc etc.

People see teachers as MORE than just people who teach. They see them as respected members of the community, and an example to the children they teach, and as such they do expect sometimes unrealistic standards from them- which is a kind of a compliment, in a way, is it not?

It is a compliment Jooly yes.

joolyjoolyjoo

I really don't think society in general sees teachers as "respected members of the community" - not for the last 15 years really

I think it's amazing that so many of you think teachers shouldn't be teaching morality. What about when one child hits another or children are asked to wait for their turn etc I'm not suggesting that all aspects of morality are encouraged at school but to pretend that it is something that just should be happening at home is extraordinary. If you try and divorce academic learning from emotional you won't get very far. I'm sure most of you teachers on here do it without realising- even things like putting a smily face on someones work or smiling at a child when you see them or asking if they're ok if they seem down. These are all part of making an environment feel ok enough for children to learn in. There are some children who need much much more than others and for those that can be contained in mainstream schools then I'm afraid yes it does fall to the teachers to do their best for these children too and that means tailoring things emotionally as well as well as academically.
Not smoking in front of the children is also part of the job. Nobody's saying you shouldn't smoke at all but you do have a responsibility to the children you teach and modelling safe behaviour is part of that.

No one said that teachers should not be teaching "morality", but what is "mortality"? But that should be in the work place. Its up to parents to stop their kids from under age drinking or having underage sex.

However you have to realise that teachers are human. They have a pulse and have a life outside school. Teachers aren't at work 24 hours a day, seven days a week 52 weeks a year.

Like every other adult in the land, teachers should obey the law. However they should still have the freedom to do what other adults take for granted.

I don't have a problem if my son's teacher wants to go to a night club and get pissed until 4 in the morning, have wild passionate sex with a stranger, providing she doesn't have to get up for work the following day.

I imagine that meeting a six year old pupil while on the piss would be the worst nightmare going for a young teacher. She would not need any form of punishment, the embrassment factor would be enough.

Morality is implicit in everything we do and say: teaching it is very limited in its effectiveness I think, esp. with small kids. Every time you handle a bullying incident, speak to a child, reinforce homework morality is taught.

Now you can teach the theoretical stuff (heck, half my degree is apparently in philosophy apparently) but it's what you see in RL that teaches the most important thing- respect.

Anyway, why I searched for this thread:

had a letter to my home today from a teacher feeling the need to write to us individually to apologise ofr a protracted sick leave. ridiculous that she should feel the need IMO, the class has been covreed by a lovely subby teacher and the kids seem to have hardly noticed: it's the silly gossiping mums that have caused this silly situation.

(oh and no I don't think teachers should be any different to the rest of us outside work hours; smoking immediately outside the gates I would be uncomfortable with- I removed my ds1 from pre-school partly because he was seeing the teachers do this and imitating it at home with a crayone and I didn't want that- but I think with a little bit of sesnse applied (I used to socialise away from where I worked in a family supports etting because as much as anything I didn't want to be harassed by 'can you help me with' etc) teachers have to be free as anyone else

noone said the teachers should do nothing - in fact I said they should SUPPORT the parents and the parents should SUPPORT the teachers. I talked of teamwork, but stressed the 2 different roles. It is NOT down to the teacher to raise the child. I can't say it enough. It is down to the PARENT. the teacher supports the parent, the parent supports the teacher - but be clear where the responsibilities lie.

Teacher educates.
Parent raises.
the 2 work together.

And what about those children who's parents are not able to provide a stable enough environment at home? The ones who are not abusive enough for the children to be removed but are nonetheless struggling? They are in your care for many hours of the day-
Ofcourse it is not down to the teacher to 'raise' the child in the same way as the parents but children are to a degree raised by schools and teachers. Teachers can obviously be incredibly important to children and how children see themselves. Families are most important in this but teachers are often not that far behind. The phrase loco parentis comes to mind.
This does not mean teachers can not get crazy drunk or whatever they want away from the kids but smoking right outside the school gate is not really away from them.

But to add- I think the proposals in the article are too extreme. I don't think prosecuting people for having an alcohol problem is going to help anyone.

I disagree stillenacht I have had nothing but respect from people when they know what I do for a living.

Being a teacher for example means that I found it very easy to get a house to rent when we moved as people have assumptions that teachers are honest, reliable etc.

I do think of teachers are a respected set. They are one of the people qualified to sign a passport application, for example- not because of their intelligence, but because of their perceived social standing.

ds doesn't think teachers have a life. He is convinced they all live at the school.

Mind you, he's five, so he's got an excuse.

my one great aspiration and reason for coming a teacher - to sign a passport!

Woooo hoooo!

It doesn't mean we are respected tho jooly

i disagree twinset - in general we are less respected than has ever been the case imo. Of course, in the groups of friends and relations that i mix with my job is respected (to a certain point) - but many people in private sector think we have a cushy number (holidays, 'working' hours etc) and many people think along the lines " those that can ,do... etc"

I don't think it gives any social standing, unless you are a Head Teacher.

No one has ever said to me those that can do, etc and I have always been very respected for what I do. Perhaps it depends on what circles you mix in. I have never felt anything but total respect for what I do and am always being told that people could not to my job which I find sad as it is not that hard and is immensely satisfying.

The only place that I have experinced someone being rude to me because of my job is mumsnet, tbh most of the rudeness I meet comes from mumsnet