in thinking that if it's generally accepted that the family is usually the best place to raise children....

[gabygirl]

...... (except in cases where there is serious abuse and neglect) when it comes to the care system, why so many people seem to abandon this principle when it comes to the issue of boarding school?

I haven't been able to stop thinking about this issue all morning. Last night I sat up until midnight watching that documentary on channel 4 about the boys who were abused at Caldicott. It stirred up so many sad feelings in me and made me cry. I felt so sorry for those men.

I went to boarding school myself at the age of 11 and although I wasn't sexually abused, I was so starved of intimacy and affection in my relationships for the next 5 years that it really affected my sexuality when I finally became sexually active at 15.

Did anyone else see it? The other thing that was sad about the film was the men's desperation to protect their parents against the knowledge that they'd exposed them to abuse, and in one case turned a blind eye to it even after they knew it had happened.

"The first lesson I learned about boarding school life is that if you want to survive being deprived of your parents? affection then you have to persuade yourself that you did not need it in the first place. Herein lies the great flaw in the public school system. In many ways prep schools are idyllic places. They are usually in the country. You can play football and cricket and make huts in the woods. But what you cannot do is love. You can?t love your parents because it hurts too much. And you most certainly can?t love your fellow-pupils because there is an overriding taboo against any hint of homosexuality. So, after a while, you just get out of the habit of loving. As I dare to say many of those Boarding School Survivors ? not to mention their wives ? will testify, getting back into the habit can be a very difficult task".

I clicked on this to read xenias post!!! and for once i totally gree with her tis xmas!!!!

I really do get a bit about this ability to 'love' being somehow forced out of you if you go to boarding school. It isn't actually something that can be quantified or measured in the first place: and again, people who express love are not always the best people. SOmetimes a person who insists that they love you is actually busy manipulating you, or trying to - consciously or not. Love is not always welcomed or reciprocated, and there is quite a lot to be said for being able to cope with solitude and be independent at least some of the time.

My dad went to boarding school at 6. It was hugely damaging to his relationship with his parents. My dh went at 16 and just loved it (asked to go himself, got a scholarship and had a ball). Clearly these are two different types of experience. I went at 13, for me looking back it probably wasnt an ideal time to be away from home. I would want to be around my girls during the early teenage years, it isnt an easy time. Of course I am yet to parent a teenager and I may change my tune. I hope to be a mum who they can talk to, we'll have to see.

Even if I am the last person my teenage daughters turn out to want to talk to, I think there is a value in having a home separate from school. At boarding school you live 24 hours a day with peers. It is very intense, there is no down time from relationship traumas and the like. To be able to come home and shut the door, I would imagine would be a plus.

I dont see this as black and white, as you can probably tell from my dithering, my parents made what seemed to be the best choice. I am a perfectly happy adult, I love them etc. But I wouldnt send mine. Just cant really put it any other way.

I think most boarding schools have got a lot more aware of children's emotional needs in recent years.

I went to boarding school for all of my secondary schooling. Before that I was at an expat British school for a year, and was totally miserable - I turned 10 in that year, but the other kids were seasoned expats who had nothing in common with me, and more importantly were all 12-13 because they'd moved so much.

Ended up making very close friends at boarding school who are like family to me - as an only child from an area with no kids close by, having friends around outside lessons was wonderful, not to mention way more activities than my parents could ever have arranged.

I don't think it's a bad idea for kids old enough to understand why they're going, say 10 up. We expect kids to move away from home to go to uni (until recently) and no-one argues that they're traumatised by that.

My mother went to boarding school aged 11, and said that her home life effectively ended, becuase she was always between home and boarding school after that.

My father went aged 7 and is too emotionally damaged ever to have spoken about it to us.

scaryteacher you really, really are scary if you think it's GREAT that children whose mother died, and who were sent off to board while their father stayed in his job...

you keep talking about people 'having' to take this option.

It's down to choice. Please have the honesty to admit to your choices in life. As someone else said on the thread, they would change their career not to take this option. And I don't call that sublimating your entire life for your kids; I call that doing your parental duty and prioritising them.

good god, another member of my family was sent to board after mother died. Well I wont regale mumsnet with the details of his adult career but he was completely messed up.

There are many many damaged survivors. You only have to read the thread to see that and even if only 25% or 10% of children suffer that way why take the risk?

It is very difficult living with teenagers and I can't say ours spent hours talking to us but I liked the fact we were around, able to deal with things, cope with the hormones, show them an example. I don't want them to form close relationships with peers and have a formality with their parents that I see with children sent away. I hate it. I don't like to see it at all and there is a distance that builds up when you're away. It really isn't very nice. You're much more likely to succumb to never working because no one else does or ove working or the latest fad on diets or smoking because everyone does or whateve rit might be if you're surrounded by solely that school influence than coming home to a normal family life every night and seeing that what your friends at school said about smoking say is not normal and you're not sticking out like a sore thumb because you're different out of school hours because instead you're safe in your own home.

I would give up work or whatever was necessary so as not to send the children to board. I would leave the army etc etc. I hvae friends whose wives have died - they have not sent the chidlren away. they may have had to find an au pair and cut their wokring hours and income but they don't reject the child a second time by sending it away. that's the worst psychology there is.

Most parents regard it as wrong to send children away under 13, but even in mid teens children need their parents. So when is it fine? Well probably 16 is okay for most children if they want to go.

it depends on the circumstances why you went to boarding school. i personally went to one from 11 to 16 and could never send my DC as i couldnt bear to be apart from them. I would disagree that all children within them are starved of intimacy.

much as i hated my experience (catholic nuns are not much in the way of laughs/affection/being rational human beings) there was no abuse like caldicott

It's certainly NOT black and white: do some of you really think that the only way for kids to gain independance is to be sent away to boarding school? My kids go to school- they do lots of things without my immediate input, I encourage independance...with the safety net that is home. I remember my teenage years with some cringing and some affection. I railed against my mum and dad, but often fell back on them when things went wrong. I often think my teenage years were the time when I needed my parents most, at a time when I was trying to make sense of the world. And yes, I went away to uni at 17- but I knew I could always go home if I needed to.

I'm not talking about "nuclear families". My kids will experience teachers/ nursey nurses/ friends/ relatives all as people who care about them and who they can talk to during the day. Will it really affect their independance to come home to me (and sometimes DH) at night, as a constant?

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Stephanie - what should he have done then? Jacked in his job and the family live on fresh air and benefits?

We are in a very, very similar situation to Scaryteacher (my two were at the school her DS is at now, until a couple of years ago). We will keep the DDs with us as long as we can, and try and be back in UK for some of their secondary education, but the chances are that they will have to board at some stage.

The thing that disturbs me about boarding school is how little research people do into it. I know people who have merely sent their child to their old school, who have sent their child to a school because "Old Fruity's boy is there and he said it was fine." Is this how your parents selected your school, Gabygirl? Only it seems peculiar to the diplomatic service as far as I can see. These days (how old are you?) most parents keep their children in international schools for as long as possible, but it sounds as if the "snob factor" influenced your parents in their choice of your education.

Oh, and I went to a state school, and most of what you described as going on in your boarding school went on in my state school. We had four teachers sacked while I was there for having it off with the children, bullying was rife and it had the highest pregnancy rate in the county.

I went to boarding school at 16 because I absolutely hated being at home with my mother. We had an appalling dynamic that didn't really sort itself out until I had been away from home for seven or eight years. I think I would have done better going away a few years earlier to be honest. My mother was in most ways a good mum, and as an adult I can understand why our dynamics were so iffy. But spending lots of time with your parents is not always a happy and good thing. I was bullied at junior school, and my sister at her grammar school, and my parents were totally oblivious, so being at home is no certain protection in any case.

I know lots of people who have been to boarding school, and I have never heard any of them tell awful stories, at least no more awful than the many people I know who have been to day schools (private or not). A couple were sent to very unsuitable schools where they were unhappy, but it should have been completely obvious to their parents that that was going to be the case, as they were pretty unhappy children in the first place, and needed a very different environment (there is a huge variation in the ethos of different schools).

My experience of boarding school at sixth form was that I actually had a lot less freedom than I would have had at home (like having to be back in at 10.30pm every night, for example), but a huge amount more opportunity to do a variety of fun things (like rowing, woodwork, philosophy, organizing a major theatrical event etc). Thinking about the children I was at school with, they seemed pretty similar to the kids I had been at day school with, except they were mostly boys (and therefore silly at times) instead of the all girl environment I had before. Teachers seemed fairly similar too, some odd ones, some brilliant, and mostly in the middle.

One of my relatives is currently at boarding school (weekly) and it has, I think, been a lifesaver for him. He is valued for who he is, and has relaxed in a way that he never had before, and is doing very well academically. His family were in an area that didn't value geekiness, and he was struggling (he is also dyslexic). His mother has another role where frequent, unplanned moves are involved, and where choice is not possible (she is a vicar). His parents really struggled with the decision to send him away to school, they would have preferred to have him at home, but had to recognise that it was not the best option for him. He is quite difficult kid, but has a very close relationship with his parents. It doesn't seem to have radically changed since he went to school.

When choosing a boarding school of course you have to be even more careful than choosing a day school, but there are lots of good schools with caring staff. Personally I hope that I wouldn't have to send my children away, but if I did I would make sure they went somewhere where they would have a great time, with lots of opportunities to do different things that they couldn't do if they were at home (my brother for example took up canoe racing and rock climbing, not your usual inner London sports).

I don't suppose that dispensing with boarding schools is going to turn us into a nation of blubberers. The northern countries that don't have them aren't noted for their greater emotionalism.

Otoh boarding will always be needed, not just for the forces and diplomats, but for people who live in isolated places. It's not just the privileged rich, this is how ordinary people in special circumstances have to manage their children's education.

Or should we say that no communities should exist on small Scottish islands or in Lapland or in any other place where you cannot feasibly set up a secondary school?
That it is everybody's duty to move away from their home by the time the children get old enough to go to school?

Scaryteacher - Good morning

'Unique, as they are to their teachers as well'. Uniqueness of a child is not common practice in the classroom or in the boarding environment. Performance based acceptance, is not the same as being accepted for who you are, irrespective of what you do or dont do. In other words, you dont receive unconditional love in the classroom or at boarding school.

DO children really only receive performance based acceptance in school? My ds is not the brightest, but even in his fairly ordinary comprehensive I get the feeling that his teacher actually likes him...you know, just as a person.

Cory - Good morning. Im sure the teacher does actually like him, but im also sure there are children who she doesnt like, she is only human after all.

As you say you ds might not be the brightest, but im betting he is quite well behaved?

Morning, Claw. I don't think he is all that perfect, to tell you the truth. She seems a genuinely warm-hearted woman.

I suppose my point being, would her liking him be unconditional? If he were to be disruptive and rude etc.

SB - for an RN officer , which this guy is, you have to put your notice in, and if you are really lucky, it can take as little as a year to leave. It can take longer.

I was very upset when his wife died as she was a lovely lady, so please don't imply otherwise.

It is not as simple as you make it sound. His job entailed being away at sea with no contact at all for up to two months at a time. He was in a highly skilled and specialised job; and replacements for this particular job are very thin on the ground.

I don't think I said it was great that this lady died; however, boarding school was an option that enabled the kids to stay together and gave the Dad some time to work out what to do next, when his world fell apart, and he still had a job to do.

Yes, some people HAVE to take the boarding option - those posted abroad (and you don't always get a choice of where you're sent) where there are no suitable schools. If you are army, the culture is that you move around with your partner, and I explained in detail earlier on the thread the problems entailed by frequent moves and finding places in state schools. One army family I know moved 13 times in 17 years - the kids board, and are much happier. She goes back to see them every three weeks for exeats, and they come out here at half terms and holidays.

As for changing jobs so your dcs don't go to boarding school - get real and be practical. Livings have to be earned, mortgages and rent have to be paid and in the present climate who in their right mind would give up secure, interesting and challenging work to look for another job?

As for choices, I chose to marry an RN Officer; I chose to have a child; I can choose to educate him how I wish - privately and perhaps at boarding school. The choices my dh made career wise enable us to be able to do that. If I decide that ds will board, I will choose a boarding school very carefully indeed.

What I do not choose to do is to produce an egocentric child who thinks that our family and the world revolves around his wants and needs and that we would do anything for him, because we won't. We as the adults will look at the situation and decide what we think the possible outcomes are. We will then discuss it with ds and lay out the options logically and sensibly and talk them through with him.

I have taught and know children around whom their parents thought the universe revolved and they were for the most part selfish little horrors who thought they could get away with murder...if that's 'prioritising' the needs of your child then no thanks.

My parents did lots of research, went to lots of schools, and picked a school which seemed to have a very caring ethos, outdoor ed, good music provision etc. In retrospect it was the pastoral care that was appalling and that is a difficult thing to assess from the outside. Also I would reiterate that children in a school are often fiercely loyal to it and their social network within it. I would have recommended it at the time, it was my normality, it was where I lived, I didnt want to leave. There were certainly children there who were better off in the school than at home, but schools do not advertise themselves as places to put your kids if you dont really want to look after them yourself. Certainly no one on this thread who has kids boarding or is considering it falls into that catergory so it is not a boarding school defense to say some people have rubbish famillies, with money.

claw3 on Wed 17-Dec-08 08:31:15
"I suppose my point being, would her liking him be unconditional? If he were to be disruptive and rude etc."

Depends on her personality I suppose. I did work experience as a teacher and I think I probably could have done.

Anyway, I'm not actually defending boarding school as the emotionally best experience.

But I have enough experience of traditional isolated communities- such as fishing villages- to know that boarding schools can be a lifeline. Unless we think noone from a traditional community should be entitled to secondary education.

Claw, hallo from a wet and cold Belgium.

I can't say that I ever judged my students purely by their academic performance - I tried really hard to remember that they were each an individual with quirks (the lad who compulsively tidied my desk as he had aspergers); the lad with tourettes; the Year 10 who came and carried me to my classroom when I twisted my ankle and fell up some steps, and the others who collected all my books for me; the lass who won a poetry prize and would always hold a door open for me; those who were carers for disabled parents or siblings.

Teachers respond to students as they do to other human beings - some they like, some they don't - and it isn't academically related. One girl I taught ended up on Brat Camp; her behaviour in school was appalling; but I really liked her, and she knew she could always come and grab a coffee with me if it all got too much.

Teachers accept children for who they are, warts and all, that is the raw material we work with. We may try to ameliorate their behaviour or help them with their academic performances, or influence their thinking, as that is our job, just as parents do, but we are not going to change that person, they are who they are you can see that at 11 when they start secondary school. What teachers do is try to ensure that the student leaves school with a set of exam results and some personal skills that will help them to get onto the next stage of their career / sixth form / life.