To ask someone to move on the bus and not expect to have 3 people have a go?

[Sufi]

Got on the bus this afternoon with buggy and DS1 (who is 12 months). It was busy but not too bad, and I'd let another bus go by already as it was full. I also waited for a buggy/wheelchair friendly bus, where you're allowed up to 3 buggies, and checked before I got on there was room (there was: there was one other buggy on board).

The flip-up seats were occupied, so I politely but firmly asked a man if he would move so I could get the buggy in. He got up, I thanked him and explained it was so that I didn't leave the buggy in the gangway, blocking everyone getting on and off.

After 20 mins, this man tapped me on the shoulder and said, 'you don't have the right to do that, you know'.

I said, 'do what?'. He said, 'you should have folded your buggy up and you were really rude to me.'

I said sorry, but said (and I was being quite feisty at this point), have you ever tried holding a 1 year old on a moving bus and folding a buggy down? I only did it once and nearly dropped DS1. He then got really irate and said I was really rude and that he had back cancer.

So I immediately apologised - I was bloody mortified - but he was getting off the bus. A woman next to me said I was rude and I should have folded the buggy down, and then this other man laid into me, saying I was rude and a bitch and a bad person.

I was - am - so upset. I just started crying, was so mortified. Of course I'd never ask ANYONE disabled or ill or whatever to get up. but I didn't know. I just asked this man if he would move.

So now I'm worried that I am rude, that I said it in a rude way. I can be quite forthright and maybe that's what they all meant by rude.

Some other people (women) told me not to worry but I couldn't help thinking it was my fault and I've been crying for about an hour. I'm also deeply ashamed and am worried about getting back on the bus again.

Was I wrong - seriously, was I? Is it unreasonable to ask someone to move away from the disabled/buggy area so you can get on the bus? I really can't start folding the pram down, it's just too dangerous. I feel like absolute c**p and never want to get on the bus again.

My baby days are now over, but there were no buggy friendly buses when my two were little (and they are only 8 and 9). Folding up the buggy with a baby in a sling, a toddler running off, and shopping too is very hard, but quite possible. I think it is fab that there are now buggy spaces, but it is a bit of a privilege in my view.

It is difficult to say whether the OP was polite or not, because you can't get tone of voice from text, but my dh would say she was rude because she didn't actually say please.

If the chap had cancer in his back then it would be highly likely he was a) terminally ill, and b) in a lot of pain, so being asked could have been a big deal. Perhaps he didn't feel he could say anything until he was about to get off the bus because he thought the OP was aggressive (I'm not saying she was, just an alternative interpretation).

Difficult to say. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking as nicely as possible though. You are putting someone out if you are asking them to move, and a bit of courtesy goes a long way. Of course I also think people should sit at the back of the bus unless they have an access issue, and people don't, which it much harder for those with pushchairs/shopping and the disabled/old and infirm.

And all that other stuff sufi said...

Sufi - how are they going to knock a child sat on the floor out of the way. I don't sit him in the aisle!!

Agree with pixel.

Fortunately I have the option of driving, but parking charges are ridiculous where I live (£2.20 for an hour in a town centre car park), so if I'm going in for any length of time we get the bus.

Even at 3.6, my DD was hurled halfway down the length of the bus when the driver sped off just seconds after we'd paid (we were trying to get to a seat further back in the bus as we are fit and buggy-less). She wasn't hurt but was very shaken up and even now at 4.3 always mentions it when we go to get on the bus.

As a result, I now always sit at the front with her if there's a space as she (and I if I'm honest) are terrified it's going to happen again, although obviously I would move for someone with greater need.

The point I'm trying to make is that the bus drivers as well as other passengers need to be a bit more considerate of what it's like trying to do anything in a confined space with a small child (even an older one), let alone having to do it whilst moving and being glared at and tutted about.

People on buses are awful. Some dreadful woman once told me my then 6 and 4 y/o DSes should have stood up for two young men to sit down ("because children should never sit if adults are standing") in circumstances where there were other vacant seats on the bus...

I go to Birmingham on the bus frequently which is fairly busy. The buses are always so rammed I have to fold the buggy most of the time. I always put DS on first wait for everyone else to get on and then go back for the pushchair so no worries about people trampling on him. Never had a problem but perhaps I've just been lucky.

I'm sure you don't, nappy. let's agree to disagree on this one.

Nooka, I really wasn't being rude. I'm not an agressive person, I speak like a public school girl and I'm really not someone people would describe as rude. Firm, sometimes, but never, ever rude. Absolutely agree with you about how the man might feel, physically, if he had cancer. That's why I feel so terrible as I'd never, ever expect someone poorly to move. My gran died of bone cancer and it's the most incredibly painful thing. Just awful. But I couldn't possibly have known. And yes, buggy friendly buses are a priviledge, as I doubt I'd be able to get out and about with DS without them. I'm not rude, I'm not ungrateful, I;m not one of those people who thinks they have a 'right' to certain things.

Thanks everyone, by the way, am starting to feel marginally better about this.

I also use the bus with my children on a daily basis - dd is 3 and ds is 1 and in the buggy.
I always ask people (as politely as possible) to move so I can put the buggy in the buggy space. My thinking is they can sit anywhere on the bus - I can't.

I wouldn't ask someone in a wheelchair to move though.
And you can't tell someone has 'bac cancer' by looking at them, so how were you to know?

Plus when you asked,he moved, could have said no. And for the people calling you a bi! - if they felt so strongly about it, they should have given him their seat!

Try not to get too upset about it. There are some nasty people in the world and be glad you are not one of them.
You are NOT being unreasonable Merry Christmas to you and your family!

I think the reason that some people are intolerant is that these buggie-friendly buses are such a recent thing, and people got on with things and managed before their invention.

I have a 22 month age-gap between my two, and using buses and trains regularly when they were tiny. I can't believe it now, but I would hold the baby when he was titchy tiny (weeks rather than months) and fold the double buggy single handedly, manoeuvre us all onto the bus and buy tickets!

I always had super light weight easy-fold buggies.

A friend of mine had a less bus-friendly buggy, and she used to give her baby to the bus driver whilst she folded the buggy and stored it on the bus and put her fare in the slot thing, then retrieved the baby from the driver!

On our buses you have to get off at the back, so you can't ask the driver to wait for you to get back on and get the buggy. He would have no idea that you were going to get back on for the buggy.

People would deffo tread on a baby on the floor too - and there's not usually room to put them not in the aisle as all the seats are usually taken.

My DH also works for TFL and has twice had to try to reunite babies/children with their paretnts when buses have slammed the doors and zoomed off prematurely. One time was pasticularly difficult as the child (about 5) didn't speak any English.

maybe it's just different in London.

I hate having to catch the bus with my kids. The drivers are the rudest most unhelpful bunch of individuals I have ever come across and the fellow passengers arn't much better.
I remember getting on a bus once and my youngest who was about 18 months at the time was crying. An old women sat opposite said at the top of her voice 'what an awful child, she needs to be strangled!' Many people, especially
the older generation will mutter insults under their breath like they own the bus. Can't wait to pass my driving test!

I'm a Londoner, and I think the buses are pretty good on the whole. I'm also quite posh, but that doesn't mean someone else might not think I'm not as polite as I could be, or indeed that on occasion I can't sound quite abrupt. However it does sound like people really weighed in, and that was uncalled for (and of course you didn't know if the chap was disabled - most people in the tip seats are not). Hope you are feeling recovered - it's horrible to be unexpectedly under attack - I'm glad some other people reassured you.

CP do you get on at the back too or just off at the back?

Here in Edinburgh there has been a huge hoo ha as the bus company just all of a sudden decided that if you couldnt fold the pram you could not get on the bus. There has been a petition raised against them, I am past that stage now but really feel for anyone with a new born or with twins that needs the buses to get around.
When DS was tiny, I asked politely for a lady to move so I could get into buggy space (only one unfolded allowed) she was veryfat but nothing to indicate a disability - she moved( about 2 feet, bus was empty), and then got up as was her stop few mins later and then proceeded to shout at me how she was disabled and how I had no right to sit in that space etc etc, DS was about 5 weeks I was very close to the edge and cried for about 2 hours... some people cannot wait to complain and gripe it is what there life is about and tbh I think it is more and more prevalent

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Definitely don't give up using a bus because of what someone else might say or think, enjoy the fact that they are there ( the buses) and ignore anyone who is not nice to you. I hope you find some friendly regulars on your route. We have had our ups and downs on our route but now my DD knows all the drivers, they all wave to us if they drive past and we are out walking, and other passengers treat us like friends. I hope the bad company will melt away leaving a nice community for you and your little one. Good luck

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate it and have taken on board all your comments. I'll double check now that I'm using a nice tone and make sure I say please as well, as yes, maybe the man took umbrage at me not saying please, and then at least if people kick off I can know for sure it's not my fault. I do feel like a bad person but maybe am just tired. I hate to think that I have upset anyone else, but anyway. And then as soon as DS is old enough I'll be able to fold the buggy, too. Actually, by then we'll have the tram so it'll make life much easier! Thanks all, off to bed xx

Def not unreasonable.

What is it with people?

If I was sitting in one of those seats (which I would try not to) and saw someone with a buggy get on I would get up to let them on.

If I had a condition that was not clearly visible and choose to sit in one of those seats I would tell someone that if they asked me to move and there were no other seats - if there were other seats I would move without complaint.

FWIW a bus driver has driven off while I was getting the folded buggy off the bus. DS was on the pavement as I foolishly helped him down first, then tuend round to grap the buggy as the drive shut the doors and pulled off. I was so shccked I didn;t even ring the bell again. Other passengers shouted and rang the bell. I was terrified, when he opened the doors I jumped off the bus and grabbed DS, the driver muttered some obcenities at me and drove off. I wrote to LRT bueses to complain and got an apology.

DS is 3 now but we still use the buggy as we need to walk quite a way and fast (as late) to the bus stop and I find it stressful getting on and off buses. I try to fold the buggy down while at the bus stop before the bus comes but that is only possible if you have an older child, I can remember how hard it was when DS was a baby - I used the sling to hold him while folding the buggy and while on the bus but it was still hard work. I wouldnlt put my baby on the floor of a bus - yuk.

Some people are very kind and helpful though. The other day I was on a single decker bus and was amazed how nice the driver and other passengers were to me - helping DS by holding his hand etc.

Just mark it up as experience and don't let it put you off the bus! I've had worse experiences with nasty people on the street, in the supermarket and in a restuarant - there are just some horrible people out there who see a woman with a baby as an easy target.

Totally agree that SOME people seem to get the red mist when they see a mum and baby. Who knows why but they see it as a licence to be really rude. Am usually a strong assertive type but was reduced to tears recently by rude old man on bus when I dared to ask if he would mind moving so I could get twin buggy onto bus (he was sitting on one of the flip-up seats). Don't waste another moment thinking about it. Easier said than done, i know.

This really annoys me too, i have always been the person to give up my seat for others, hold doors open and just help out, now i am a mum and i am the one who needs the help it is rarely (strangly until recently) given, i went on a bus when DS was about 6 weeks, i only had a carrycot type pram and the bus driver let me on and punched my ticket, then i realised that there was no space, i wasnt allowed to leave the pram in the gangway and the luggage section was full, i would have had to carry the whole carrycot upstairs.

i actually asked the bus driver if there was any spaces upstairs and there was so i asked downstairs if someone would mind going into one of the spaces upstairs so i could put the carrycot on a seat. nobody wanted to help and there was just alot of exchanged glances, people waiting for someone else to do it. finally a woman and a young boy went leaving a space for the carrycot. i could hear people talking about me the whole journey, the nerve of me

i would have just got another bus but i had spent the money i had taken out and would have just been stranded.

But TBH since i have moved to where i live now (a market town) i have had so many fiendly people help me get on and off buses, i have been helped in many ways, from attempting to fold the pushchair (lol) to holding DS whilst i fold it (one particular woman who helps whenever we are on the same bus) to helping with shopping. people have suprised me moving here in many ways, it is such a friendly place, people are hardly ever rude, its nice.

and i just love how DS always gets a fuss made over him on the bus by all the old dears, they just cant resist his charms

It sounds like a horrid experience for you.

I always simper and smile inanely like an idiot, saying things like 'oh, they really just don't make these buses big enough, do they? [cue further inane smile and eye rolling]

Try not to worry about it.

LOL Sufi now you know why I have an emmaljunga kept especially for bus journeys

Have not read thread. OP - it's the guy that was being unreasonable. He is probably a MNer in disguise. You are not allowed to do anything other than sit in mute silence and accepting whatever crap you are presented with y'know, anything else is soooooo unreasonable

OP - YANBU

London buses are the pits for mummies. When I was v. pg. I started using the bus because I wasn't well enough to walk to work (pre-eclampsia).

1 - I got on a very crowded bus, and two ladies were sitting in the front disable/small child seats with no obvious problems at all, heads buried in their bibles. I was feeling pretty rough (really shouldn't have been at work but that's my fault), and needed to sit. They completely ignored me. Young guy who I would assume was a bad bet in a dark alley leapt up to give me his seat.

2 - I ran to catch a bus @ 8 months pg.(yes, still stupid). Bus waited til I was pretty much in line with the doors, and then looked at me and shut them....

3 - Driver was yelling at a passenger for not having the correct change. I went up and said it was uncalled for, and that I had the change.. he threw me off the bus, again about 7.5 months pg. Everyone else got off in sympathy and he had a revolt on his hands. He couldn't go anywhere, I've no idea why, maybe because all the passengers had got off. Anyway, he grudgingly let us all back on.

Side bar - if it's a buggy area it's a buggy area, doesn't matter if it wasn't there 2 years ago, or 2 weeks ago. That's what it's for... and anyone who had illness bad enough to impact his bus positioning should be used to buses enough to make it clear from the off that it was difficult for him to move...

Garbled, but hope that makes sense!

Nappy on at the front and off at the back.

Molly re the drivers speeding off most of them do that around here. As soon as you have swiped your oyster they swing out and put their foot down. I fell while trying to get to a seat when I was about 7 months PG. Also was on a bus once where an old lady fell and really hurt herself - they really should give you time to get to your seat.

I have only had to fold the buggy once on the bus and it is really hard to do it while holding the baby and with the bus zooming along and swerving about.

i just get off now if it looks like I'm going to have to fold it.