To be so sick of anyone who earns a 'decent' wage being demonised by those who don't?

[sickofthis]

OK, I am very probably REALLY going to regret this, but it is getting to me, the number of threads at the moment that seem to think if anyone earns a decent wage (over £50K) they are somehow responsible for the downfall of the economy and are greedy etc.,

It's cobblers.

The truth of the matter is the housing market has grown too far too fast and too many people have borrowed beyond their means on the back of thier houses (which now aren't worth what they thought they were)

Yes, some banks took too many risks and are paying the price but this does not mean ALL bankers are greedy, horrid people. Just like all property developers (who, by the way, have made lots of money from the property boom) aren't either.

But, some people took far too many personal risks to buy material stuff they didn't need. That makes them JUST as culpable.

The housing market needs to cool off. When ordinary good people can't buy a reasonable house, there is something wrong with the pricing strategy and, one way or another, it's going to be corrected.

Well, Pinner4 - the EU is an open economy... Go feel free to live in whatever part of it you wish if it takes your fancy and it's a much better option that the UK....

Ohh... you want to stay in the UK do you? how surprising.

Cory said "I am prepared to do a deal on this one. I won't demonise if you won't suggest that people who earn higher wages are necessarily working harder/doing more important jobs/contributing more to society.

Oh, and if you are prepared to recognise that highly paid jobs are dependent on the existence of a larger number of lowly paid jobs.

Do we have a deal?"

oh look at you two playing all nicely !

Surprise that people take coments so wrongly:
(apologise if some feel offended, but I didn't mention nothing like has been say above:
-never critised uk (just comment a few ways could improve-made easy living for more people, costing less in general, and more ecofriendly)
-not saying that people that earn less, work less, is a huge topic to get lost in. Of course, the economy is a chain, and lots of jobs are link to others. (neither mention that????)
-of course I know that all of us can leave where we want, (THE SERIOUS ONE)I'll keep for myself my opinion, in respect to you. But why UK has a considerable number of citizens living abroad-wanting to-dreaming of?? Plus all those programs of moving abroad, magazines, etc....
(please, don't mention the weather (cool+cluody=great anti-ageing!!
obviuosly, not job seeking.......until know, at least) I think they look for a better life style, at least those doing so, but not many nations emigrate for that reaseon, at least in democracy.

What are you talking about, pinner?

The British Diaspora? Please elaborate...

I think is natural to look for an affordable way of living! things are getting quite out of control, regarding cost.
Good luck, QUATTROCENTO and SERIOUS ONE, and hand accepted for a shake, of course!!!
Good night!

You have an opinion of me...

Really, Pinner? And yes, we can all live where we want to and leave when we want to...

Bit of a slip up there????

Quote of the day:

"People are nice or they are tossers. From my experience money rarely has much to do with it." , I totally agree.

It's interesting to see many MNers with similar experiences to mine - I didn't hear of university until I was about 16. Sailed through school and GCSEs, but in my secondary school we could only take a maximum of 8 while a nearby school that has a better reputation even now allowed its pupils to take 10. My parents didn't have a clue, they trusted the educational system implicitly as where they came from (West Indies) they felt that the teachers looked out for the pupils and just wanted me to do my best

As for careers advice, it was a case of, oh you can do law, with little reasoning as to why... but no help as to how to bridge the gap between GCSEs and A-Levels (got C and D) and no help whatsoever as to what degrees or universities to apply to. I was lucky in comparison, my friends who got

I can feel Grey's Elegy coming on.

I don't know what Grey's Elegy is but it sounds like some sort or lergy to be avoided so I'm off!

I did have a decent wage.

But then I got sacked. (because they didn't pay me for 3 months and then I got into debt with my child care provider and complained).

Now I am jealous of anyone with a job at all.

And have no money to buy presents.

sorry to be boring.

I've just flitted over GE for the first time in 25+ years. It is powerful stuff. Everyone who has contribute to this thread should have a look.

If you haven't heard of it, then hmmmm

interesting poem although having been forced to do poetry at school I tend to avoid it.
I think when I see wealth being splattered around I don't feel jealous just can think of better things I'd do if I had that much. Like Elton John spending 30K on flowers. Why? Thats a living wage. Its 15 wheelchair for children waiting on the list. Thats what pops into my head.
There was an article which I can't find saying if everyone lived on 15 - 20K, mended stuff, clothes from charity shops, only bought was was 'needed'. Pretty much how we live, then the environment would be much better off.
I do find the 'buy more stuff' very odd and how adverts tell you you'll be happy/a better person if you buy the latest thing.
ds2 asked for an iPhone yesterday. We couldn't afford one in a million years and anyway, he has a mobile for emergencies to call home. So I sat him don and asked him. Its pretty much cos rich friends at school have them. So he wants one to fit in/feel good about himself. That made me very sad as I thought'd I'd bought him up better than that. It was easy as a home educator but now he's 13 and at a former private school he's turning into a consumer before my eyes

If we compare witty and I, you certainly don't need more than 8 GCSEs to go to our best universities so the number don't matter. The grades do. Most people in my year at school did not go to university. I think I worked quite a bit myself. I remember being at the public library and also writing to universities myself. What made me at 14 or 15 do that to research what I needed and witty not? Was it because I did have articulate and educated parents and also I as reasonably clever (I was at a very small girls fee paying school but very few went to university). I suppose it was also that I probably had good teachers so that would have helped.

Lots of children want the trinkets their friends have. They survive if they don't have them and some children need to feel cool and others don't. Even my non identical twins - one couldn't care less what he wears or what phone he has and his twin does. The former is cool and popular because he's very good at sport and the latter I suppose keeps his coolness quotient up by having technical trinkets. The currency they all use as chidlren to decide their pecking order is always fascinating but we need always to give them the skills and internal feelings of self worth so they know it's all just a game and to have fun at it.

Why do schools let their students sit 13 GCSEs for which they acheive a range of Bs and Cs? Independent schools don't do this, they let their students sit 10 or 11 (no soft subjects and they are expected to get A*s and As across the board) and then they encourage their pupils to spend time doing interesting stuff that is nothing to do with exams (sport, drama, debating society, choir, DofE awards, creative writing, school orchestra, school rock group, school magazine, Communitylink, CCF etc) or government targets. This extra curricular stuff is an incredibly important part of an education. It's a great shame state schools feel they have to spend their entire school week teaching to the test and meeting government targets.

Swedes - you're so right.
I was at lunch with a teenager the other day doig 101 gcses and I thought 'who the feck told you that was a good idea?'
9 or even 8 good subjects with good grdes is far more useful.

They do it because they are desperate to bump up the league table a couple of places, and even a handful of grade Ds in Leisure and Tourism or (or similar Mickey Mouse subject) will do that.

Some subjects are done as BTECs and I think can count for two. There is a lot if result-massaging going on in the state system.

You'll probably be able to do GCSEs in Drum & Bass and Minor Sleb Culture in a few years' time.

This is why state education is often poor. It's not because the schools are shit, or the pupils are shit, or the teachers are shit. It's because the system is incredibly cynical. It's a system that places misleading statistics above the education of individuals.

op you abu

Swedes, UQD - this is what sensible people feared would happen when school league tables were introduced - proved right.

Introduced by a Conservative government, lest we forget and start blaming the current lot. Who are no better, though, for not having abolished them.

I think they're very useful as they give poor parents who don't know much about schools information which rich clever parents have always known. They level the playing field and they do tend to show which are better and which are worse. The private school with 97% A - A* at GCSE is clearly shown to be better (in terms of raw exam results not value added) than the local comp which gets 35% at A - C at GCSE. Obviously they can be fixed a little bit but overall they are useful to be there. If the state abolished them the private sector who step in.

My daughter needed her GCSE certs yesterday for some job applications. She did nine subjects at North London Collegiate. I did 8 (and music a ninth in the sixth form). That's plenty. You need time to play, to make music, play sport and just lie in your bed room thinking about being a teenager.

I've never felt demonised for earning a decent wage but one never expects to be popular for doing so. In some cultures like the US if you see someone rich you think - wow - good for them I can emulate that. in the socialist republic of Britain people think - let's steal and tax their money so we are all as poor as each other. It's just a different mentality and in some ways it's pretty nice the British don't tend to talk about money. I have never told anyone what I earn. It's a boring topic.

OP - I think the problem some people on here have is that some of the figures that have been mentioned in thread titles recently are not "a decent" wage but "a high, or even very high wage". If the average family income is 24k, you don't need to be a genius to realise that many people are on much less than that, and that tbh honest, people earning over 50k are on more than twice the national average.

xenia, would you mind answering the question, so what is your daughter going intoto be starting on a 60k a year salary?

lol at GCSE in drum 'n bass
Eventually followed up by a doctorate in friendship bracelet making no doubt