To be so sick of anyone who earns a 'decent' wage being demonised by those who don't?

[sickofthis]

OK, I am very probably REALLY going to regret this, but it is getting to me, the number of threads at the moment that seem to think if anyone earns a decent wage (over £50K) they are somehow responsible for the downfall of the economy and are greedy etc.,

It's cobblers.

The truth of the matter is the housing market has grown too far too fast and too many people have borrowed beyond their means on the back of thier houses (which now aren't worth what they thought they were)

Yes, some banks took too many risks and are paying the price but this does not mean ALL bankers are greedy, horrid people. Just like all property developers (who, by the way, have made lots of money from the property boom) aren't either.

But, some people took far too many personal risks to buy material stuff they didn't need. That makes them JUST as culpable.

The housing market needs to cool off. When ordinary good people can't buy a reasonable house, there is something wrong with the pricing strategy and, one way or another, it's going to be corrected.

My point is - until I actually got my degree, I didn't realise the huge scope of difference between what degree and what uni you go to there is! To me, a degree was a degree and a degree meant a good job. We all know that is not true. Oxbridge or other redbricks were never a consideration because it was not for people like me.

I am aware that having a degree is quite good but in all honesty, I would have been better off doing a vocational course in something skilled than what I ended up with.

Which brings me back to the teeth gnashing comments about working hard and getting a well paid job. If you are aware of what your choices are and how you can achieve them then thats great but what if you are working hard but working at the wrong thing???

I can honestly say I have friends in a hugely different money bracket. Actually I can say I have imediate family in a hugely different money bracket.

I remember DS1 going to his cousins school with me to collect them and saying

" seriously - you don't have to pay or anything? You just walk in and its all free. THAT'S FANTASTIC"

It was actually the school I went to.

I am the same person I was when I was really poor but people make assumptions. Everyone does.

People just seem to like to look at each other and assume the worst. And are very adept at finding one or two wankers in a group they don't like and then endlessly portraying that as justification for their own wankery.

People are nice or they are tossers. From my experience money rarely has much to do with it.

lots of posters say that 'opportunities are not open to everyone'.
maybe not in the past. but they are now.
if i spent one tenth of the time that i spend on mn, studing my remaining accountancy papers, i could be qualified by now.
but i CHOOSE not to.

many of us could better ourselves, do a qulification, OUni, if we wanted to.
then career change and earn more.

i have friends who earn £10k
i have friends who earn £250k

i have one friend who earns 10.
one that earns 250.
i only have 2, fio.
actually they are acquaintances

I agree somewhat Oblomov, but most of us have commitments now.........very easy to say re-train, not possible to do.

if i was 'friends' with someone who earnt 1/4 mill, you think i would be sat here ?

hehehehe. I'm not very egalitarian at all. Don't know anyone who earns over 30K. well, dd's paed consultant but we're not friends. yet.

I don't really have any friends
I just pay people a lot of money to pretend to be.

well that counts you out pagwatch, if you have enough money to pay someone. tee hee. i too would 'buy a friend' if i had the money. ha ha.

i want one of those house proud people to be my friend and say 'oh, you sit down and i'll do it'

'lots of posters say that 'opportunities are not open to everyone'.
maybe not in the past. but they are now.
'

thats not always true, if youre servicing a mortgage (not us) for example chucking it all in to go to uni isn't always an option. The only way dh can consider uni is because he's facing redundancy anyway, so we'll be poor either way.

And even then- got my degree last summer, but with no nursery willng to take sn ds1 its of no real value atm.

Totally agree, Peachy... What's feasible at 18 (living on baked beans, sharing a loo with 10 other people, drinking in bars where your feet stick to the floor unless you move every 60seconds ) isn't quite so appealing at 36 (someone else already made that point on this thread, BTW - can't remember who)

And, while I'll agree theoretically all kids get the same opportunities, I'm afraid the reality is really much different.

When I go back to my 'home' town (where I grew up, haven't lived there for years) the attitude of the young people is much different to my DSDs.

My DSD's school has a 'can do anything' attitude. One of my DSD's is very unlikely to do anything academic, but the school is totally accepting of that too, as long as she tries her best.

I've already signed DS up for the same school. My school was an extremely conservative catholic school in an area of what you might call extreme deprivation (80s, after miner strikes etc) and I'd say the combination of low expectations anyway, low morale, high unemployment (30%+) and a school which felt that girls really shouldn't expect to be anything other than a wife and mother (or nun ) really *did mean that a lot of girls I went to school with simply settled for the life they were told to expect - not what they might have wanted.

Sadly, I do feel that I grew up in an area where dreams were almost not allowed.

And I think lots of other kids grow up today being told not to dream...

I saw the sadest thing at the end of this summer: I was in a travel agents in North London, booking a trip and a family came in. The little boy (I'd say around 10) picked up the 'Exclusive' brochure and the parents snarled at him: Put that back, That's not for you.

Why not??? Why couldn't he dream of going somewhere exotic and expensive.

As someone else said on this thread (sorry, only skimmed it), you are either a good person or a tosser. Money rarely makes the difference.

But it's sad when kids are told from a young age that they can't do things.

TheSeriousOne, your primary school sounds scarily like mine. I remember being taught to sew and knit whilst the boys got extra maths tuition. This wasn't in the 1930's but the 1980's.

Can never remember the notion of university ever being mentioned at school. It took my mum to say "you are very bright, go to uni".

Agreed, TheCrackFox.. It took my Dad's determination to get me into sets for basic GCSEs where As and Bs were possible.

MOstly the girls were put into sets where the highest grade achieveable was a C.

I remember one rather agressive argument when a teacher decided to explain that it would be better to get a 'D' than a 'U' and my dad told him to fuck off in no uncertain terms that any decent employer considers a 'D' a fail anyway.

I got 12 GCSEs all above C...

Mind you the careers advice at High School was laughable. One boy was advised to go for an apprenticeship at the local joiners. He is now an actuary in London earning millions. Really, he always seemed like a child genius but the "careers" teacher had no imagination.

i remember my careers interview.when asked what i wanted to be i said "dont know" was told i was beyond help until i had decided what

my school was like that, doubt its changed much- area on deprivation index etc etc. I didnt really know what a uni was let alone that I could go to one (was 32 when I did), I was refused permission to study physics and geography and mae to do typing and child development. Typing ! That's a laugh

my private school was no better on the careers front - I wanted to do a degree in Food Science and the careers teacher (also a geography teacher, I might add) said "oh, are you going to be taking hotel management with that?" She assumed I meant home economics or catering or something, not a science degree in what is effectively applied chemistry and biochemistry.

Hi SHICKOFTHIS,
I do agree with you, I think is lost of jealousy around, and I don't understand why if you earn good money working hard in an honest way, you are demonise, but if you earn even more, like a celebrity, or showing of your rubbish life style (Kate moss career took of even higher, after pic. sniffing cocaine,etc..), they public love you, and think you are cool, and all ok, and appear on the top list or "most admire-inspirationalrubbish lits".
I think today, in our society, there is no much or moral.
At the end of the day, what is not fear, is that people that made lots of sacrifice financially-socially for training and aiming high, earning more and saving as well more, they have to pay off with more taxes for those that cause part of the crisis spending what they dont have, so other will pay for them!!!and now if you earn less and safe money, the gov.'ll give you more interest that to the others ( they say 50p per 1£)
That's not democracy to me, 'cause is not equal.
And regarding housing, I think more family flats should be build (more than 3/4 bedrooms), is not sustantiable for every person/family living in a house, that part of the problem, have a look around europe, and you'll see much quality of live, affordable housing and cheaper cost of running a country with more density in population (ex.: saving money in rubbish collection- in other countries, collected daily, post delivery- saving money+time in petrol, less energy needs: flats need less heating, because they retaing heat better.

Thumbelf!!! - that is a bit odd!!! But, atleast Uni is a considered option now.

In my school, you were having a bit of a laugh to actually expect you might go to Uni.

I had to fight every step of the way (which didn't really work, cos the teachers hated me hahaha!) I blame my parents for not having the gut sto take me out of the catholic school (Irish parents, moved to ENgland and feeling guilty about it so couldn't possibly deal with C of E! )

In fact, I hated school from the minute I went there to the minute I left. Loved Uni though.

I'm not saying that everyone that is in problems is for overspending, but there some that are, I know that lots of people work very hard for not much and have big family, all good help for them, and they din't perhaps even have the opportunity to find something better for personal situations.
What the Gov. is doing, is sorting out their political situation, not the problem, we'll pay later, much more, for all this freebies, it was thier fault, they creat this bubble, with lack of regulation,incentivating spending and debt, and inflaiting house prices, so they try to shift the blame to other.
Time to realise, that banks are not charity, neither there to help you, they make profit with us, so don't trust them, just use them the better you can, only us what we can afford. IT's the gov. job to regulate how they can make money.