To be so sick of anyone who earns a 'decent' wage being demonised by those who don't?

[sickofthis]

OK, I am very probably REALLY going to regret this, but it is getting to me, the number of threads at the moment that seem to think if anyone earns a decent wage (over £50K) they are somehow responsible for the downfall of the economy and are greedy etc.,

It's cobblers.

The truth of the matter is the housing market has grown too far too fast and too many people have borrowed beyond their means on the back of thier houses (which now aren't worth what they thought they were)

Yes, some banks took too many risks and are paying the price but this does not mean ALL bankers are greedy, horrid people. Just like all property developers (who, by the way, have made lots of money from the property boom) aren't either.

But, some people took far too many personal risks to buy material stuff they didn't need. That makes them JUST as culpable.

The housing market needs to cool off. When ordinary good people can't buy a reasonable house, there is something wrong with the pricing strategy and, one way or another, it's going to be corrected.

Penthesileia - bravo for your post at 10:29.

I wonder - is there not another element to this also. Many people make it to University and then into lucrative or presigious careers because they are given better opportunities depending upon their parents, social standing and wealth.

There's a whole layer of society who are denied these choices and who will never be ina position to go to University let alone earn upwards of £50,000.

I feel privileged as well, as my parents had the opportunity to change their class/earning power as well in 1960s/1970s northern Italy.

The same opportunities - created by trying to build a more egualitarian society, or at least with a decent social mobility - wouldn't have been available for me, and are almost inexistent for younger generations (here in Italy). I know of many well qualified people who earn a pittance even after good degrees and specialization abroad.
What kind of social system is this that survives on paying younger people so little and with temporary contracts (which often means no rights whatsoever)?

Hasn't this government been obsessed with trying to get everyone to university though? Arguably to the detriment of the quality of the degrees being awarded.

That's why you have these meaningless degrees in subjects like "Water based leaisure studies" (real life example) and you virtuallty have to have a degree to work in McDonalds.

Fiofio - Well done your DH...

Same happened to my Sis. Was badly bullied at school (even bloody worse school than I went to), got zero support, got 5 mediocre CSEs (before GCSEs) and started a YTS.

She has worked SOOOO hard and is now a dentist (v. proud emoticon needed here). I AM so proud of her, but yes, she is also a minority.

By Beanieb:
Penthesileia - bravo for your post at 10:29.

Penthe - that is one of the most well thought out, most considerate posts I've ever read on MN.

Very well thought out, IM(Humble)O

wasa - My point isn't that EVERYONE should go to Uni, as that simply devalues it to the point of stupidity, but to understand whats been offered.

An Oxbridge degree is still worth ten degrees from crappy 'universities' - am thinking Teeside, Bournemouth, Luton (Which I actually did my MA at, and thought it was crap, it was pretty much impossible to fail... No, actually, it WAS impossible to fail. One chap on my course didn't even turn up for the ONLY closed book exam, so he was allowed do it at home... FFS! How crap is that.

Yes, My sis is an inspiration (as your DH is!) - it CAN be done

A higher rate of population educated at University level is considered a good social indicator, or am I wrong?

Generally speaking, from experience, high earners work extremely long hours in very high-stressed jobs. They have to be on time all the time (or get sacked), never be able to take sick leave, don't take all their holiday allowance, they have to be polite all the time (often to idiots) and on the ball all the time, they have to be intelligent, to deal with the stress of a job that has multi-million pound ramifications if they get it wrong, and work 12 hour days plus long commutes either side. They have put in years of hard work and dedication and would never get away with some of the behaviour I see those in lower paid jobs exhibiting sometimes (eg shop assistants chatting about their social lives while they are supposed to be working, office workers out on constant cig breaks). So I think they deserve their pay packets.

Is anyone saying that someone who sits on a conveyer belt and puts the same thing in the same box all day long has to have any of these skills and should be paid the same? Or someone who works a till in a grocers shop? or someone who works in a call centre? I don't think so!

Plus, if it wasn't for the amount of tax and NI that high earners pay, all those low earners who qualify for government benefits wouldn't get any money. And there would be no income support, no child benefit, and no working tax credits etc.

No, I too am sick of seeing it on MN.
And I don't earn a huge wage. And I do appreciate that people on lower salaries work very very hard.
And you don't need to go to uni to earn a very good wage.

My nephew is 19. He is a bricky. A builder. he is earning £100's per day. Seriously. and his mates are tilers, electricians. they are earning in a week, what I earn in a month.
Ho hum. Do I give a monkey . no.
just the way life is.

as has been said. everyone is allowed a whine. about anythig. on Mn. it is relative.
budget and shut up. everyone.

YABU to think that high earners are being demonised.

It is the attitude that some of the high earners were displaying towards people who didn't earn as much that was causing some of the backlash; and the other attitude of not realising that actually high earners frequently have less to worry about than people who have just been made redundant or who are on the bottom end of the payscale. High earners have choices which people without money don't.

I couldn't care less how much anyone else earns UNLESS they somehow feel it makes them superior to me, or that I "didn't try hard enough", or try to rub my nose in it.

It's all about people's attitude.

Nic - "Generally speaking, from experience, high earners work extremely long hours in very high-stressed jobs. They have to be on time all the time (or get sacked), never be able to take sick leave, don't take all their holiday allowance, they have to be polite all the time (often to idiots) and on the ball all the time, they have to be intelligent, to deal with the stress of a job that has multi-million pound ramifications if they get it wrong, and work 12 hour days plus long commutes either side."

Not in my experience of provincial commercial law firms. And professional indemnity insurance would cover the cock-ups. So not a matter of life or death/serious injury.

Ime on mumsnet the kind of people in the 200K bracket object mostly about paying taxes for what they perceive are the 'passengers' in society ie those who are perfectly able but avoid work because benefits make it unattractive to do so.

Generally no one objects to society supporting those who cannot work through illness, caring responsibilities or disability.

I haven't often noticed high earners actually imply that nurses, teachers and low waged public servants etc don't work hard!

But over the years there have been threads where some high earners object to paying for education through taxed income.

I think this website inevitably reflects what is still a very divided society and one that's full of countless complex snobberies.

yes, i have a friend who works for a large corporation and makes muti-million pound decisions all the time as a Director of Finance - he has plenty of holidays!

Generally speaking,as income increases, people tent to save a smaller proportion of it and save a greater proportion. so those on a (relatively) high income are likelyto save more of their income than those on minimum wage. When the cost of housing, food etc goes up, those on a higher income are expected to cope with the rises by spending some or all of their income that they would have otherwise have saved so those on higher salaries get less sympathy.

Of course, the above is a generalisation and factors such as wealth and number of dependents also come into the equation.

what penthe said. there's high earners and low earners and the high earners need to remember they couldn't do their jobs without the base of the pyramid. And being a high earner doesn't make one better.

'Generally speaking, from experience, high earners work extremely long hours in very high-stressed jobs. They have to be on time all the time (or get sacked), never be able to take sick leave, don't take all their holiday allowance, they have to be polite all the time (often to idiots) and on the ball all the time, they have to be intelligent, to deal with the stress of a job that has multi-million pound ramifications if they get it wrong, and work 12 hour days plus long commutes either side. They have put in years of hard work and dedication ...So I think they deserve their pay packets'

OOOo, thats me that is. Only without the million pound thingies although if I fail at my 'job' it will cost the state a great deal of money.
I'm a carer. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. I'll do it for 50 years plus, I don't get holiday or sick leave and I

where I came from - crappy housing estate - I'd never even heard of university until I was 17. I was the first in my family to go. The only one of my class to go on after O levels and even do A levels.
If you are denied the education that such jobs and opportunities exist how are you ever going to move up?
University wasn't for people like us apparently. Until recently I'd never heard of the 'Russel group' and didn't know there was aheirachy of poshness at uni. And now of course, the posh ones want to charge more fees to exclude the poor. Agaian.

needmorecoffe -being a high earner of course doesn't make you better but it doesn't make you worse either.
I get so sick of the 'all lazy, liars in the city,' type stuff.
My Dh is neither lazy, nor greedy, nor in anyway to blame for the current economic crisis.
And I'm a high earner and I write books ffs!!!
We're not another species.

that should have ended 'and I don't get paid'
Actually, I must be nuts. Will park dd and mother into state care and go off and make something of myself that involves fretting how to live on 150K

I agree litchick (unless your nobby to people). Society needs all its members but there needs to be some fairness. We're a rich country, there shouldn't be people too afraid to put the heating on.
Maybe if there was more moxing but who can honestly say they have real friends ina hugely different money bracket? So none of think of 'the other' as real people with feelings etc.

No one is saying that high earners shouldn't exist- just that whinging makes them seem socially unaware. Doesn't mean people are jealous just because they point this out.
Touchy lot aintcha?