To think that all those generations of women who battled for equality for women have actually achieved nothing!

[flixx]

All that has changed is that women are now expected to go out and work and well as still being souly responsible for the vast majority of domestic stuff and childcare.

Womens lives aren't better or easier, infact they are now so complicated that half of us are so stressed and knackered we don't even remember who we are anymore.

The role of a mother is less valued by society than it has ever been when we all know that it truely is THE hardest job ever.

i'm pretty sure if you asked most working women (with children) are they happy with their lot..they would probably say no....even with the help of washing machines.

I think that is a very harsh judgement, Anniemac.

While there are people, in RL and on MN, who think they are entitled to something for nothing, it is a minority. Most women I know understand the value of hard work very well indeed. Their frustrations lie elsewhere.

oh come on anniemac you know that's not true,

why would any mother with a couple of little kid's want the added pressure of a full-time job?

i think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

So, as women where do we go from here? Is feminism something that we see as a continual development or something that has peaked?

What should we be working towards? Choice seems to be the answer but is it up to us who live in societies where we do have choices to try to work with women where they have no or little choices in their lives?

Sounds a bit like a sociology essay but it is interesting. I used to read a lot of feminist literature and theory when I was a student but haven't really kept up with it.

There are some societies where you do get women with good jobs, careers etc in the cities but when you go into the countryside you find a very different story. Did anyone see the programme on Monday (BBC2 I think) about arranged marriages in Pakistan? Those poor girls - one was being beaten so badly by her husband but felt she couldn't leave because of family honour. She was british and just couldn't believe the culture shock. But sometimes is it the women in the family that facilitate the marriages and I can't believe that they don't know what happens in some cases.

We need a new feminist charter for the 21st century!

Women's progression in the work place peaked a few years back, according to a recent article in the Economist.

Anna - was that on salary or level?

Agree with anniemac.

Daftpunk: "i'm pretty sure if you asked most working women (with children) are they happy with their lot..they would probably say no....even with the help of washing machines."

I am a working woman with 2 children. I disagree. My colleagues are other working women. They don't gripe about their 'lot' - certainly their 'lot' is nothing more than the LIFE you chose. I believe we all own washing machines.

rookiemater - the sad thing is that for those on average or below average wage, both incomes can be necessary to maintain even the most minimal standard of living - when you consider the cost of renting or paying a mortgage on a two bedroom flat Sometimes I see friends raising families in extremely cramped and unsuitable accomodation and wonder if we have really come that far. Those tiny old tenement flats are again being used to house families. And they tend to be better than newbuilds for the purpose.

I wholeheartedly agree that many are obsessed with some notional minimal standard of living involving e.g. seperate bedrooms for their DC, sky TV, two cars, new clothes etc and they sacrifice a lot to achieve it. But I guess that was always the case. Just because those parents have choices and seem to have skewed priorities does not mean the majority do.

Daftpunk: "why would any mother with a couple of little kid's want the added pressure of a full-time job?"

You are viewing women's desires through the prism of your own subjective views. You might not want a ft job. Other women get satisfaction from work and prefer to combine a ft job with parenting and careful outsourcing of domestic responsibilities and childcare.

Don't make the mistake of denying the progress that has been made that allows women the opportunity to CHOOSE to work ft v. what you want for YOURSELF.

I've just gone back to work full-time after 5 years doing school hours only. DH's new job means he can do all the running around now. And it was the best decision I've made in many a long year. It's easier full-time than part-time and I feel as if I'm taken seriously at work again. And acheiving more.

blueshoes - only the very well off have a choice

I think that was the OP's point. In some ways the burden has increased.

georgiemum - both.

anniemac, you obviously work from home which is different.

blueshoes, i'm pretty sure you would rather be at home. (or maybe your children are school age?)

i don't see how rushing back to work when you're baby is 5/6 months old is "equality"..women are up with the baby, womens bodies are still recovering from the birth .

men are able to get up and do a full days work because they have a good nights sleep!

my ds didn't sleep for more than 3 hours a night untill he was almost 2, i got up to him everynight because i b/f him...how could i have gone out to work aswell? i'd have died with exhaustion....that is not equality!

daftpunk: "blueshoes, i'm pretty sure you would rather be at home. (or maybe your children are school age?)"

I will be gentle, in case this shatters any long held beliefs of yours. I have one child that is school age and one child in nursery. I work pt every weekday, but very close to ft hours. I WANT to work. It has never been clearer to me. The threat of redundancy that any employee in the UK and US must surely consider whether in a theoretical or more real context has brought this home.

I love the balance that working and being a parent gives me. I get to spend time at home and in an office, with my children and with different people. I get different things from both environments. I love the financial flexibility, independence and identity (apart from that of wife and mother) that work brings.

I don't want a fat redundancy package even if it means I never have to work again.

actually anniemac, if i was in charge i'd pay women to stay at home (if they wanted to)

i think you have me all wrong, i'm one of the biggest supporters for womens rights.

daftpunk: "my ds didn't sleep for more than 3 hours a night untill he was almost 2, i got up to him everynight because i b/f him...how could i have gone out to work aswell? i'd have died with exhaustion....that is not equality!"

My ds 2.2 years still wakes up to 5x a night. He is still bf-ed. I go to work every weekday. I don't necessarily have to (my dh has a good job) but I want to. I am not exhausted, far from it. It works for me and my family.

Who is going to fund paying women to stay at home and have children? Working men, working women who choose to do so, childless men and childless women? So that is feminism, you think. Sounds like a free ride to me.

Cars have a good deal to do with our problems today. Without cars we'd all live in big communities all our lives, supporting each other, looking after each other's kids, etc.

So we shouldn't blame Feminism, we should blame that fucker who invented the engine.