to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

ChristmasFairySantAsSLut

LOL its not a case of not caring what others think. I just was having a row with dp over the mmr jab when i posted originally.

DP never saw the change in ds1 as he is his step father. I was a single mum and was 100000000000% devoted to ds1. Educationally he is not lacking but behaviourly he really is and when you ask why he is doing something he really doesn't know most of the time..ok like all dc he can play up and know why lol but hell so can I

I will not give ds2 the rubella jab as I do feel this is a mothers responsibility towards her daughter....our sons cannot carry the burden of other peoples inability to think of the future.

I had never said i was not giving him the singles just not the triple I really do believe my gut instincts and they are telling me not to give the triple to ds2 as he would react badly....to the point that I really have a sickening feeling about it.

And anyway when I wrote to the dept of health saying that confidence in the MMR was low so why didn't they allow singles, they replied and said I was mistaken. Confidence in the MMR was a high as it had always been and most parents were happy to give it. This was watched carefully and as far as they were concerned there was no loss of confidence in the MMR. Numbers being vaccinated were as high as they had always been.

They can't have it both ways.

Just popped into this thread to give support to all those who are speaking sense and actually know what they are talking about like Jimjams, pagwatch, cote and others.

I can't muster the energy at the moment to get involved in this thread the way I sometimes do when vaccine stuff comes up. My DD1 is vaccine damaged (not MMR but DTP) and isn't doing so well at the moment. Hence I can't be bothered to participate on threads like this which are so full of misinformation, assumptions, memes and propaganda.

The fact is that doctors don't really try to get a comprehensive medical history before giving a vaccination. The doctor who jabbed my daughter (during an eczema flare up that he declared irrelevant despite being ignorant of its origin) couldn't believe that I didn't want her to have the MMR even though she clearly reacted badly to her DTP. I guess he was thinking of his bonus.

so...think this thread has established one simple tool really...i.e. for those administrating...do look at the history...do not blindly administre the vaccine....

also research needs to be done to find ways , simple ways, to establish which child is at risk of adverse reactions of mmr or any vaccine....
responsibility of the state/society has to be taken when there is a clear sign of vaccine damage...and actually more responsibility has to be taken if mmr damage is even uspected.
Oh, and more research into severe autism has to be done...

oh, and Ladyevenstar...I meant, it you don't have to justify to anyone but your nearest and dearest....your op did put it out a bit...and whilst, in general, I still am for mmr and think that in general it works...I realise that more has to be done and optins, viable ones at that, have to be given...

oh and ladyevenstar...I don't think you don't care about anyone...just that my personal opinion isn't/shouldn't/mstn't and hopefully wound't really be important to you and your circumstances...if that makes sesnse...I certainly didn't mean that you didn't take notice and just didn't care...iykwim...

ChristmasFairySantAsSLut

Its ok, I do care to an extent

ok probably too late to the thread, but speaking as someone who has a ds with digestive disorders and challenging behaviour but with a baby whom i want to protect [as well as do the responsible thing of course] can anyone tell me, is the single measles jab much safer than the MMR? Could not the single jab [as well as the disease itself] cause similar problems as with the MMR? Anyone know? would really like ds to have single measles but just can't see any research to prove it is safer.

The MMR booster is not to boost the immunity of the individal child it's to boost the immunity of the community, as there will be some children who did not get immunity from their first jab. One way to avoid the booster is to have a blood test done - if the test shows that the child is immune to measles, no need to have MMR.

According to the doctor I saw - Mumps and Rubella do not need to be 'boosted' it's only for the measles that they do it again.

I'm worried about MMR - not about DD having it (although I know that I'll feel I'm signing her life away when she has it done), but because DD (17 months) can't have it until sometime (don't know when) after Christmas. The GP in my surgery who's in charge of Paeds has left, meaning that the surgery has decided not to do any jabs until they get a new GP. If she was my first I'd just keep her away from other kids until she had it, but as my fourth, she is inevitably in contact with loads of kids. Should I phone the PCT and complain? Trouble is, I don't want to fall out with my GPs, because they are 200metres away from me, which is hyper-convenient.

Oh Marla

the only thing you can ever do for your child is make the best decision you can. And the good news is that that decision will almost always be fine.
Children like my son are rare.
By all means inform your self and be cautious. But do not let it become so burdensome because that is not good for you or your child.

Marla, I can completely see where you are coming from....I mean, I am very pro mmr, however, when it was time to have my children jabbed, it was still a difficult decision....this tiny niggle in your mind that wonders about the what ifs....
I said, in one of my early posts how I would never forgive myself if I had decided against mmr and had caused someone to be damaged through this....however, on the same par I also knew that I would have had an equally difficult time had I made the wrong decision in letting them have the mmr....

sometimes ignorance does seem to be bliss....but that is just against my nature, I suppose....but making an informed decision certainly is more difficult.

god, am rambling on, sorry....

anyone know why the single measles jab safer? Might it still cause problems in a susceptible child? [digestive problems, auto immune history etc]

christmas

Having had one child 'lost' via the MMR and also one child who has had no vaccinations at all I have to say you just have to make your best choice, make it with the best information and let go any sense of guilt.

I don't blame anyone for what happened to my son. I recognise that my DD could contract a disease and I don't blame myself for that prospect ( although in current times many people seem to always want to attribute blame to others). The worst of all scenarios would be one of my children passing something on to another person - especially a child. I take that responsibilty seriously.
But I honestly will not take a chance with my own childs health in order to possibly/maybe/potentially protect someone elses child.
People talk about that choice as if they would but I don't believe them - at all.

I think it is nearly always a simple risk assessment. For most people they will perceive that the greatest risk to their child is the disease. For my child the clear evidence is that the vaccine is a far more likely risk. So the vaccine for me is the most dangerous.
It is simple for me.
It is confusing for others only because they have no way of knowing if their child is peculiarly vulnerable as mine was - except by having the vaccine.

But FWIW I wish everyone would let go of the guilt. Guilt and blame are the reasons these debates get so emotional

true, guilt and blame are not really helpful and conductive in any issue, really!

And you are right, it is about risk assesment....

its always easier said than done though isn't it?

mytether - you have to be a troll. There can be no other explanation for your refusal to understand what has been said over and over and in plain English.

"Because not all children regress, some never develop, which suggests that MMR is not necessarily responsible."

You have been told many times on this thread that nobody is claiming that all autism is caused/triggered by MMR, nor even that MMR causes autism in all children. That is not what Wakefield said. That is not what jimjam or anyone else said.

Wakefield said there seemed to be a small subgroup of children who regressed into autism following the MMR. Later research suggests this group makes up about 6% of all autism cases.

"'However, as no-one is suggesting that MMR has led to an increase in the rate of autism I'm not sure what the point of your link is.'
Err yes, thats exactly what has been suggested. That was the OPs point! She saw a marked behaviour difference in her ds1 after MMR and fears that it will do the same for dc2."

Sigh. OP saw MMR negatively effect her DS1 and understandably fears the same can happen to her DS2.

That is not the same thing as believing autism rate has increased in the world because of MMR.

"Measles, Mumps and Rubella are FATAL"

Oh wow. We like a bit of hyperbole, do we? Rather, measles can very rarely be fatal but has managed to kill only one person in the last 16 years in the UK, a traveller boy who who was suffering from an underlying lung condition. Mumps killing anyone is extremely unlikely, especially assuming access to a hospital. And rubella being called "fatal" is no less than laughable, as it is mostly so mild that it can go unnoticed. It is only dangerous for fetuses of non-immune pregnant women.

"or can leave children INFERTILE (male mumps)"

Is there a name for this planet you are from, where mumps causes infertility in children? Because I assure you, on Earth, it doesn't.

Personally I would let him have it but it's totally your choice he's your child.

I have an autistic son, an autistic brother and a nephew (son of autistic brother) with bowel/digestive problems but I do not believe there is any issue of susceptibility whatsoever and had no concerns at all about MMR immunisation for either of the DS's. I too have been offered a dx of Aspergers so I'm maybe not as sensitive to the emotional issues as I could be.

Yes YABU
Please don't compromise everyone's health after reading seriously flawed research.

wow
insightful
thanks.

COte, to your last point about mumps and infertility...I believe that is NOT a myth! I am pretty sure it isn't a myth.
However, I am happy to be proven wrong.

pag, indeed, it is NOT as easily done as it is said...

christmas
I think mumps can cause infertility in men if they contract it post puberty. Not in children.

oh right...am getting it now....

Asperger's is pretty heritable in the main. Lots of family history of autism, lots of unusual uncles/grandparents who people say 'oh yes he was quite an odd man' is highly heritable. Broader autism phenotype in the family? Yes you can probably have MMR safe in the knowledge that it won't make the blindest bit of difference to the autism risk of your child.

However, one severely autism child in a family where the family history is not one of autism but one of autoimmune conditions of various sorts then you might want to tread carefully with the siblings.