to not allow ds2 to have mmr jab?

[TheLadyEvenstar]

I don't think I am, after ds1 had it i noticed a major difference in his behaviour and don't want to go through it again,

Sorry, should have put in double paragraph breaks there.

Doesn't matter how many children there are if you don't identify the subgroup. And the subgroup is believed to be small. Still sucks if you're in it.

For Wakefield's response to another recent paper supposedly discrediting his research, scroll down here.

I have to work now.

I just can't keep away. As much as I would love to as this thread is doing me no good at all.

Re grimupnorth and the graphs.

The link at the bottom takes one to the website the graphs are on:

here

Amongst other choice quotes, this:

My final conclusion after 40 years or more in this business (medicine) is that the unofficial policy of the World Health organisation and the unofficial policy of the save the childrens fund and ... other vaccine promoting organizations is one of murder and genocide.

Go on have a look it really is quite scary.

What cote said!!

Wakefield did not suggest that parents shun vaccination. He said that children should be vaccinated. He suggested that single vaccinations be given instead whilst further research was carried out.

This incidentally is what Horton (Lancet editor) said under oath at the GMC:

"When Horton moved to talking about the paper published in the Lancet, it became clear that he had the highest regard for the method which the ?case series? used and the way in which it was presented. If the prosecution was expecting him to say that the paper was full of poor science, they must have been surprised when he said the absolute opposite.

Horton said that the Lancet paper was an excellent example of a ?case series?. That this was a standard and entirely reputable way of reporting on a possible new syndrome. He likened it to how the first cases of HIV/AIDS were reported in the early 80s and how the new variant CJD issue broke more recently. He said unequivocally that the science reported in the 1998 Lancet paper ?still stands? and that he 'wished, wished, wished' that the clock could be turned back and the paper be considered in the light it was first presented, without everything that followed.

Defence council spent a considerable time cross examining Horton about the declaration of ?conflict of interest? issue. Over the years this has become one of the most important issues associated with the Lancet paper. At the end of a long session, the worst that Horton could adduce was that Dr Wakefield was genuinely surprised that there was the need for him to reveal funding from the Legal Aid Board, which anyway hadn?t been used in this case-series, or at all at that point.

Horton was happy to say that Dr Wakefield had been honest throughout his dealings with the Lancet and that he had not declared any conflict of interest because he genuinely believed (and believes still) that there was no conflict to be declared. While Horton personally disagreed with Dr Wakefield?s interpretation of this, as did Professor Simon Murch and Professor Walker-Smith, he acknowledged clearly that it could be seen as a matter of opinion and not a reflection on Dr Wakefield?s honesty."
(from Cry Shame website).

"It is well known that measles is an important development milestone in the life and maturing processes in children. Why would anybody want to stop or delay the maturation processes of children and of their immune systems?"

Well that sounds like sense to me.

Chukky - Why do you keep posting and criticising quotes from some website? Are you under the impression that everyone who doesn't agree with you has to agree with those quotes you found on the internet?

From Richard Halvorsens web site

"Price list - MMR single vaccines (consultation and immunisation)
Consultation with Dr Halvorsen (30 minutes). £75
Single measles immunisation. £95
Single mumps immunisation. £145
Single german measles (rubella) immunisation. £95"

CLEARLY he ha he best interests of children at heart

Yes, of course, it is immoral for a doctor to expect to be paid

I am pointing out that the graphs that grimupnorth drew our attention to, which argued that all of these illnesses would have gone away of their own accord without any intervention come from a website with very dubious messages.

That people should be careful when looking at data to see the source it comes from to see if the source has an axe to grind.

The graps grimupnorth linked did look very interesting, and the link back to the site which i think seems rather extreme is hidden at the bottom.

Just concerned that people might look at the graphs and draw conclusions without being aware of the bent of the website from which the are drawn.

Of course the site is also a very good one in support of the people who are dubious about immunisation, so I have done them a service too.

macdoodle- Halvorsen has given his NHS patients the option of single jabs for years on the NHS. He's the only NHS GP in the UK to have offered that (and it does put him under some scrutiny).

I also know people who have been to see him and advised not to vaccinate - which obviously lost him some money.

So yes he seems to have their best interests at heart.

umm I AM a doctor - but those prices are exorbitant and cashing in on peoples anxieties.......

at £150/hour dont think he is losing money in a hurry

GPs get paid a bonus based on % of children within practice vaccinated. Performance-related pay, basically.

I suppose Halvorsen has to charge as he is a private doctor - thats how he makes his money.

Have just broken golden rule to never comment on vax threads so am off again

That's not correct Hedgewitch.

Singles are not routinely offered as they can only be given on a named patient basis. This is because the drugs companies did not request a renewal of their license for the single jabs. I have a letter from the Dept of Health saying that renewal for the single jab licenses been requested that would have been processed in the normal way. But the dept of health cannot do anything without a request.

Singles might cost more money but that's not why HA are not currently using them.

I'm not sure it's that exorbitant for central London.

He's been doing it on the NHS for years

Answer couple of posts above. Not licensed because the drugs companies didn't request renewal of the licenses (and I have that from the dept of health in writing).

Yeah that's the real reason they push it so sanctimoniously, as though anybody who has doubts is a complete eeeeejit. When I was looking into it all with an open mind 7 yrs ago with dc1, gp was quite rude to me.

Dc1 had the vaccination as it happened, but only when I was satisfied it was the right thing. wasn't going to be talked into it by a doctor on commission whose consideration is the greater good and not just my child.

I have a question too - particularly for any GP's on this thread. Is there a system for reporting adverse reactions to vaccines? There seem to be a number of children whose reactions go well beyond the usual fever/rash etc, but from what I can tell (and I may be wrong) no system in place for determining what this number might be.

I know a child who was very unwell with severe (liquid) diarrhoea and vomiting for around 2 weeks after each of his MMR jabs (they would have been about 18 months apart I think). The GP took stool samples for testing at the time and apparently couldn't find a cause, but it was never suggested that the illness was a reaction to the MMR. This seems very odd to me, given that the symptoms occurred both times. From what I have read on these boards and elsewhere, these symptoms following MMR might be unusual but are not unheard of.

GP's - have you come across this sort of scenario? How would you have responded? Would you have logged this anywhere as a possible reaction to the vaccine?

I realise that, thankfully, this kind of reaction does not necessarily suggest any kind of permanent damage, but would have thought that gathering figures on this would be at the very least a useful step in the process of discovering which children (if any) might be at risk. It would also enable the NHS to warn parents more accurately about possible or likely side-effects, which might help to increase trust in the medical profession over this issue.

IorekByrnison - our gp doesn't want to know. she diagnosed ear infection, impetigo and possible glandular fever and said the diarrhea was due to his bowel being irritated by his glands pressing on it. He had a blood test that came back negative but when referred to the paed he said that he was happy to say ds had a form of glandular fever as there are different types.

They categorically say his illness has nothing to do with the MMR.

We've been back to the dr since with the same symptoms to be told 'he has another virus that is mimicking the first viruses smyptoms'

He has been ill for 6 months now and has another paed app for dec.

I'm not a GP but any potential adverse reaction should be reported. They often aren't though, and I know children who have ended up in HDU after MMR who have not been yellow carded (they should be- to have the vaccination ruled out).

General Public can report suspected reactions to medications here

It doesn't list vaccinations but I tell people to report it on there anyway.

Jimjams - how can you report something if you're gp doesn't think there's a problem?

I can't prove what I think but I know my child and he was well before the Jab.