To want routine, for my 4wk old ds2, who is awake 10pm-5am . AIBU to want to sleep at night ?

[Oblomov]

I don't know what to do ?
I feel like i have already tried most things.
Please anyone offer any advice ?

We are at breaking point.
We have been up all night. Till 5am.
When dh gave him to me, and said 'take him to our bed. i must sleep. i have to go to work.

I sobbed and sobbed yesterday night at about 10pm. i just don't know what to do with him. dh is concerned too.
ds1 said, 'i don't think it was a good idea to have a baby'. 'why' dh and i said, shocked. 'he cries all nught and keeps me awake' said ds.
quite frankly, i sit here this morning, feeling the same

This is ds2. ds1 is 4.10. I was spoilt with him, becasue after cs, and being in hospital for first week, he was all over the place when we got home for second week. sleepy. awake all night. but by end of second week, he totally flipped,and put himself in a routine that you could set yuor clock by.
I bf him at 6am,10am,2pm,6pm,10pm,2am.
He would bf for 20 minutes, burp immediately and I would be back in bed, asleep within 25 minutes.

So I was spolit. So thats why ds2 has come as such a shock.

He too was cs. jaundice, thick blood and low blood sugars. I was struggling with bf, so had to express before they would discharge me from hospital. then it turned out he was tongue tied. now been snipped. bf is not much better, despite going to clinics. they said it was a miracle I had managed it for this long. I have alot of milk,. so bf every time. then offer ebm.

it is tyring bf and pumping so often though.

He takes quite alot. i suppose it is demand feeding. but quite regularly throughout day. weight gain has been very good, says hv.

he is very sleepy. poohs are green, sometimes.
suggesting wind. maybe i should try infacol( been trying for a week) AND colief(used with ds1).
I have been expressing and throwing away the first 20ml of each breast, in order to get more hind milk into him, as recommended by over supply guides. that doesn't seem to have helped.

at 10pm he was still downstairs. dh said the only thing we haven't tried is formula. off i go to get some from our supplies.we try it for the first time, last night.

so between 10 and 12 he takes about 5-6 oz of formula. wide awake and chirpy.
I take him to bed at midnight. he continually feeds and winds, feeds and winds. at 3 or 4 am i have had enough.

I let him cry. and cry and cry. thinking 'tough love'. I can't do this holding him, co sleeping shit anymore. he needs to sort himselfout. and ds1 will have to get used to a bit of crying until he does.

then I take him back to his cot.
I wind. no burp. 25 mins i wind for. put down . leave room. he cries immed. i go back. wind him. burp. roots. I feed him. wind him, for 20 mins. no burp. put him down. cries. so it goes on.

at 5 am i leave him to cry and cry. dh comes. he has been in and out all night, to be fair.
he swaddles him and brings him to me, in our bed. dh downstairs.

i have cranial oestopath booked for tomoorow. ds1 had 2 sessions and i was not convinced, but am prepared to try anything.

am thnking that tough love is required. have fed him once thsi morning, but admittedly, not at 7am like GFord would like.

should i keep him awake and feed every 3 hrs. MAKE HIM

mind you, when nanny seaside and sil where here the other day keeping him awake and feding him lots, that made no difference, to the nightime.

during the night I opened up another formula and he had another 4oz of that. so he had 11oz throught he night.

I bf him this morning though. not formula.

but seriously we can't continue like this.
I need to change his body clock. I need to sleep, so that i can get up and do the school run , taking ds1 to school ( my sil has been doing this for me for 3 weeks, finishing this week)

dh and I are shattered. we did have a few nights of regualr sleep over the last couple of weeks. but for the last week, he has been awake ATLEAST 1am-4am every night. I give it and take him into my bed. ds on sofa bed. I don't want to co sleep though. I want my dh back. and I don't think I sleep that well anyway, when we co sleep. only doing it out of desperation.
I am at a loss as to what to try next.

All advice welcome.

tiktok's answer re:green poo

You poor thing, being so tired is terrible and I really do feel so sorry for you ((hug)

As others have said it is very early to expect too much however you need to do something to help yourself. I strongly advise you to speak to sil and ask her to keep taking ds1 to school if she can. Secondly, are you sleeping at all when he does go down? If not this needs to happen. Is there anyone who can look after tyhe baby for you for a few hours so you can get some sleep? Is there anyone ese whoc an help out during the day? Nights will seem a little easier if you have had some sleep.

I don't understand why you don't co sleep
Then he can feed from you in the night and you can both go back to sleep all warmand snuggly

pregwitch, yes i have a moses basket. it is downstairs and i use that alot to put him down in the day. but the thing is do you think he would go down . at all ? in a moses basket or his cot or anything ?
he has bad wind. he is hungry. rooting and then crying becasue of wind. for 7 hours of the night.

I can't see that putting him in the moses basket rather than cot or or bed, or anywhere else, is going to help.

sitting in a rocking chair, with a baby who will not settle , between 10pm and 5am is no fun. not sustainable. surely.

scarlet. that is what i have ben doing. waiting till he is calm. then i put him down. he either cries immed. and i have to pick him up.
or i get into bed. and within a few minutes he is wailing.
this is NOT getting any better. what do i do ?

vs,yes he is swaddled. not tightly. but he is wrapped in two thinish blanket things.

littleducks, we have got black out liners on curtains.

doggie, i have to pump, to get ebm to put into bottles.

i have kept him awake some days. it hs made no difference to night.
i went to have him weighed today. put on 1lb in 9 days . so no concerns over the amount of milk he is consuming, or his weight. hv today said keping him awake at day, will not make any difference to him being awake at night . is that true ?

i hate dummies. but have already bought one, on th way back from seeing hv theis afternoon.

Completely true, in fact the oppositeA is true.
They sometimes don't sleep because they aren't getting enough daytime sleep and the become over-tired and fatigued then lose the ability to get into a proper deep sleep.

poor, poor, poor you

Try a dummy.

Ask your sil to help for longer.

Can you get some paid help?

Having a new baby is awful esp is the first was a routiney type. But you will get through this

compo, for the last 5 days, I have co slept. at 2am in desperation, i have taken him into my bed. and dh has gone downstairs on the sofa bed. but i want my dh back. and I don't think I sleep that weel.. with ds2 beside me. I am sleeping, bbut i am not sure thta i sleep that WELL.

all 3 of you can sleep in the same bed though
you will get used to sleeping with him
mayabe practice in the day feeding him lying down?

thanks. re tiktok thread re green pooh. maybe I have been too worried about the green pooh, when infact it was not actually an issue.

you poor love. i totally feel for you. i went through this with dd1 and it is absolutely soul destroying.

you've had loads of good advice here already. Dummy, swaddling etc all sound good.
And I think it's a really good idea to try the cranial osteopath. They're like magicians!

I just wanted to add one thing. I know that you feel like you're in hell at the moment, and the worst thing is feeling like it will never end. But the habits of newborn babies change SO quickly. Probably this time next week he'll be a whole lot better. And by six weeks old you'll start to see a real improvement, I'm sure. They just start to get a bit stronger at that point - go for longer between feeds, poo a bit less!!

In the meantime, work out two night shifts with your husband. You could go to bed really early and sleep until 2am and then take over from him. He could then get uninterrupted sleep until morning. Could he ask at work if he could start late for a week? And definitely worth asking your sister to carry on helping with ds1 - it's such a short time in the grand scheme of things!

Best of luck and try to bear in mind that in a week or so you'll be out of the worst.

I am on the Nov 08 thread. Which ahas now largely changed to the nov 08 PN thread.

And of that 20 or so people are getting up once or twice in the night.
he won't settle.
so my sil helping with the school run.
i can't see that this is helping the real issue here.

or do you all think I am being unrealistic/unreasonable, here ?

Poor you. Sounds hideous.
Ask your SIl to help longer so you have not got that worry. She'll understand
Have you tried a bit of baby massage for the wind along with infacol? As for routine, I agree with the others but I think you can start to try a bit of a bedtime routine. bath at 6pm say, feed, wind, try to put to bed upstairs rather than downstairs. My DS used to do a bit of this in the first 2 weeks, so after the first week, if he went to sleep at 7, I went to sleep at 7.30 knowing he'd be awake again at 10.30pm.
The dummy should help particularly if wind. My DS used to scream for a while in the evening then suck on the dummy and fart for England

I would ask your sil to do the school run for 2 weeks to start with
things normally start to get into more of a routine around the 6-8 week mark
do you go out with him in the pushchair during the day? The fresh air might help him sleep better at night

oblomov - you are understandably upset and tired.

Green poo - this means nothing in a baby who is clearly thriving. It does not need treating with anything.

I don't understand why you are expressing and giving ebm - and understand even less why you are chucking 20 mls of the ebm. There is no reason on earth why anyone would need to do that except if their baby was unable to thrive with normal volumes of milk...such as a very weak little prem.

The things you are doing are making life more complicated.

How about just feeding and feeding? Not expressing, not chucking, not giving ebm, not treating for green poo, not sitting in a chair all night...co-sleeping has got to be easier, and not sure why dh is on sofa but maybe I have missed a bit of info, sorry.

'Tough love' is not workable with a four weeker, sorry. He needs to have his needs responded to, even if they are at terrible times!

You will need whatever help you can get to meet these needs for the moment - help with older kid, help with whatever else you need to do.

Then when things seem to be a bit more settled and less complicated, you can then think about your own needs and see if you need extra emotional support and TLC.

will he settel in the car? Take him out for 30 mins, then carry him to moses basket/bed? Am confused tho, does he sleep when you hold him or co-sleep?, its just you're resisting? Or will he not settle at all?

In the last 3 weeks, I have been going to bed at 8pm. my dh has been doing the 10pm shift. and he has been awake for maybe 3-4 hours at at atime. maytbe up until 2am or so.
so i am getting a bit of sleep. and it has been just about manageable.

last night was particularly bad.

but the constant screaming from about 1am - 5am. which seemed almost continuous. but wasn't really. that woke up ds1 many times. and pained dh and wore us both down.

now I just don't think that I can put up with that.

you say it will get better by maybe 6 weeks or so.
But How I feel right now is that i can't cope with even a couple more days of this.

does that make sense ?

Oblomov - don't try to cope with it a second longer! You can stop expressing and messing about with ebm and chucking 20mls away, for a start....that will remove a whole layer of hasslesome bother, I think.

tiktok, even though his tongue has been cut, twice. the bf counsellor sid he had bad habits, which would be very hard for me to break. she said that even when he had a very good latch, it slipped very quickly. he can only manage to bf for about 4 minutes. most he has ever managed was 8.

i express, becasue i then know that he is getting plenty of ebm.
the webiste recommended disposing of the first 230ml.

believe me each edrop is precious to me aswell. i can stiop doing that immediately, if you are saying i should.

I can appreciate that I am being tired, over emotional and not rational, in all of this

ob, co-sleeps if it helps. dd4 is often in my bed for some of the night, was in my bed most of last night.

aha, thank god for tiktok, she makes the most sense, feed and feed and feed and cosleep makes sense to me

you will get through this

what website is it that suggests disposing of bm?

Which website said this, and why, oblamv?

Look....don't take what I am saying as something you have or have not to do. If you think he is only gaining weight because of the ebm, then of course you cannot just stop giving it to him. But I don't think the chucking away can be needed.

You need to get some decent RL help.

How much ebm does he have?

Right, where are you? I am coming round to sit with the baby while you have a sleep.

Have you got enough ebm stored that I can look after him for some afternoons? I would probably have to bring him here but I can do Tues & Thurs afternoon & Friday all day - would that help?