To feel angry at my sisters NCT antenatal course teacher.

[LBsmum]

My sister is due in December and over the weekend has developed complications resulting in her being admitted into hospital ? on phoning her course teacher to explain she would be missing the remaining evening classes the woman responded by saying ?Oh I hope that doesn?t mean they will induce you ? urhhh ? which I find an outstandingly unsupportive and inappropriate reaction. Further during part of the course my sister managed to attend this teacher produced epidural needles to show the class whilst emphasising what a particularly gruesome procedure it was ? again I consider this inappropriate and can only assume she is trying to scare people into not having an epidural.
This is not an anti-NCT rant, I am a member and my own antenatal class was run by a practising midwife who sensibly discussed epidurals as part of a range of options available. I am just feeling frustrated by the natural birth high horse my sisters teacher seems to be on and feel bad for encouraging my sister to take the course.

Inappropriate - yes!!! Your sister needs support and help not more flippin worry!!

If you have an epidural you don't get to see the needle and by that stage you are so out of it most probably you don't give a fig. I had a terrible birth experience and my wonderful NCT lady really helped me get over the after shock and complain to the hospital.

I think this lady is over zealous by the sounds of things.

My view of the NCT is coloured by having been taught by a loon. Seriously awful. Sorry for your sister. Tell her to ignore (and give her NCT classes a wide berth".

I too am a member of the NCT but there are some zealots out there who will condemn those who choose an epidural or formula as lesser mothers.

It's a terrible pity especially since new mums are so very vulnerable and exposed to criticism.

I realise the NCT espouses breastfeeding and a natural birth but it also espouses the right of parents to find their own way and make their own educated choices.

I hope your sister isn't too cheesed off and can dismiss the lack of support she is receiving as sheer unprofessionalism.

outrageous. she should be reported if your sis has a minute.

jeez that's really not what she needs to hear.

Without knowing what complications your sister has developed or having actually myself heard the tone of the conversation, it's hard to know how to judge. Won't stop me trying though!

I think it's quite fair to comment that you hope someone doesn't need to be induced. Having last week supported someone through what I can only describe as a brutal induction experience ending in a crash c-section I can empathise with the teacher's concern about your sister. If an induction is medically necessary then obviously that's a different story, but one in five labours is induced in the UK, which is a worryingly high figure. There are lots of midwives and antenatal teachers who have misgivings about this. You also know how hospitals have different protocols for induction, which is does make you realise that there's room for disagreement about when an induction is the best course of action in a particular situation, and when there's room for discussion about different treatment options. So - no, it's not wrong of your sister's teacher to express a concern about induction.

Re: the epidural. Sorry - can't agree with you on this one. I think women need to know the reality of what they're getting into - and understanding how an epidural is sited and how it works is part of that. I knew nothing useful about epidurals after my NHS classes. I went into hospital thinking it was a minor and fairly uncomplicated procedure because the midwife had glossed over so much. I was very shocked at the time when I ended up needing one because I had no clear idea about what was involved - about the fact that there was possibility I'd run a temperature after having one (I thought I'd got a hospital acquired infection - I was terrified), or that my blood pressure would plummet after having it - a horrible sensation. It was only my NCT refresher classes afterwards that gave me the full picture, which I was very grateful for. I honestly think it's patronising to argue that women shouldn't be given a clear idea about what's involved in ANY medical procedure they have - in childbirth or at any other time.

I also think it's a bit unfair to say your sister's teacher is on a 'natural birth high horse' based on nothing more than her expressing concern about your sister being induced and showing the class what's involved in having an epidural. Actually, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the statement!

That does not sound good and to me seems inappropriate and unsupportive.

I am all for natural Birth and for learning all you can to make the right decisions for yourself....but....that teacher seems to me a bit of off the mark...to put it mildly

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Youe sister needs support not negative comments regarding induction because the more negativity you here the anxiety levels are usually increased, which of course usually brings on stress.
Gabygirl, I do agree that all women need to know about all the procedures in childbirth but it needs to be facilitated in a sensitive, supportive way. To me it sounds that this wasnt the case here.

oh FGS ys lets go back to the 1950's when the maternal and perinatal mortality rate was so much higher!
That seems like a terribly good idea to me

gg...there are ways and then there are ways...I am all for information....but surely scaring the beejaysus out of anyone is not really conductive to anyone...

I think the NCT is a bit like this. I remember the palpable reserve/lack of enthusiasm exhibited by the NCT leader of my group when not ONE of the group had a natural birth.
We all roared with laughter, and relief, at expelling our recalcitrant offspring by any means necessary.

Oh, they can be REALLY good at expressing negativity toward any form of pain relief, and often it is their tone of voice, their facial expressions, and what they don't say as opposed to what the do say.

At my antenatal classes - the normal NHS ones, the midwives were so negative toward pain relief, and then to top it off, they said that when you go through everything without any drugs, why would you want to use drugs for the 3rd stage - ie the placenta stage - in a tone of voice that indicated you were a poor excuse for a mother if you chose to use any of the medication at all.

I went to a hospital information session with an anaethetist, who explained the ins and outs of all of the options of pain relief, factually and without the negative overtone. It was really reassuring. I went away thinking "Well, I will go without anything for as long as possible, and then ask for gas if I need it toward the end. BUT, if I need anything else, then I know what's involved, and I know the risks." I was a darn site better informed than any of the other women in my ante natal class.

As it turned out, I did need an epidural - my contractions were long, as in each contraction lasting roughly 6-8 minutes, some over 10 minutes. My darling DS decided to join in the fun by kicking me while the contractions were happening and making them go longer. Gas wasn't helping at all (you can't take gas for such long contractions!!!). Apparently my midwife was very worried about me, but fortunately for me she didn't show any of this to me - don't think I could have dealt with it at the time. (Poor DH started panicking a bit though!)

After going for as long as I could, I asked for an epidural and even then it took me 3 hours before the anaethetist got to me - I had the misfortune of asking after 'business hours' while there were 3 caesareans going on and only 1 anaethetist. After 3 hours I was screaming at my DH to get the anaethetist and drag her in by her hair if he had to, just as she walked in.

If I had met any of those numpties that were on their high horse about natural child birth and the evils of pain relief while I was in hospital after the birth, I think I would gone a bit mental at them.

I've been told afterwards (by NCT friends) that I must feel a failure because ds was born by Caesarian. You know, I think I might have felt a bit of a failure if I'd let him die.

I had two inductions and honestly it did not matter in the grander scheme of things. I've got two living children. I might not have had.

MadMarg I am impressed that one anaesthetist managed to cover three caesareans simultaneously!

I remember our local NCT course teacher being like this (as well as some of the group members). I had an induction, 18 hours of quite frankly fucking frightening labour, followed by a CS after pushing for nearly 2 hours.

I was known in my group as "the on who had ther Caesarian"

tossers.

One of them actually said to me "OMG, I would never let a surgeon come near me with a knife just to get a baby out!"

My replay was something along the lines of "Well, good for you. But if it hadn't have been for that knife-wielding surgeon, DP would be ordering 2 coffins now, one for me and one for my son. Besides, you had no qualms about the surgeon coming near you nose did you?"

I huffed out and sat outside Bog Island news in Bath and cried because I felt like such a failure.

4 years later, I am v proud of my retort to Mrs Pious Bottom and I still laugh at the look on her face and all of the other identikit women sat round the table at "baby cafe" as I hauled my oversized arse and my screaming baby out of the room

Your sister's NCT leader sounds like a nutjob and it spouting judgemental and unsupportive bollocks. She should be reported. It's not her place to pass comments like that.

Oh well done SheikYerbouti!!!! What a great retort!

Sue - after the event I must say I'm impressed as well. (Although I do think they were at different 'stages', as it were) But at the time I couldn't give a damn and just wanted her with me for as long as it took to get the needle into me!!!

She did tell me that as I had had to wait so long, I needed to press the button for the extra pain relief as soon as I was able (you know, that green light system), and not try to be brave, as it would take a while to get a decent level of pain relief into me.

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I think my NCT classes played a large part in my PND post DS1's birth. They left me feeling that natural drug-free birth (ideally at home) was all that we should be aiming for. Obviously this is then what I aimed for. Ended up in hospital, with an augmented labour, epidural and then a crash c/s. I thought it was all my own fault.

I really think that NCT teachers should give a more balanced view of pain relief, and that it is absolutely OK to try it if you want to. Yes, explain the pros and cons of them all, but don't make out that it's terrible to even consider using them.

With DS2 I did my own research for a home water VBAC. Ended up with a hospital VBAC, but still knew the ins and outs of all the procedures that could happen. I felt much more in control and happy about my choices.

I wouldn't have thought you would even see the epidural needle if you had an epidural.

I'm like quattro, was also taught by a loon who basically told us it was wrong to have an epidural unless you'd been in labour for xxx hours and the baby was in a bad position.

When we re-told our birth stories and I said I'd had an epidural she immediately wanted to know how long my labour was (didn't ask the natural birthers) then seemed satisfied that it was over 24 hours and that my baby was nearly 10 pounds. That's ok then - I went through enough agony for her liking apparently.

Absolutely can't see the point of showing epidural needles at all, I never saw mine. It wouldn't have been helpful though if she'd not described the ventouse as a simple sink plunger and forceps as salad tongs as I was totally unprepared for quite how big and scary looking these both were.

Sorry for the hijack!! YANBU.

I must have been lucky with my NCT teacher, although she was pro non intervention she talked us through all the various options in a factual way.

I do think extra care should be applied in these situations, she should have asked if your sis was likely to be induced and then talked her through strategies to cope.

How awful that this teacher doesn't respect what choices people have to make in preg & birth - would complain about her

Telephone conversations can be really difficult to interpret due to lack of body language and therefore easily misinterpreted especially when emotions are running high. If the antenatal teacher said it this way then she is clearly in the wrong and unfortunately there will always be a small minority wanting to force their own views onto parents-to-be in common with midwives.

As for epi needles - can't please all of the people all of the time - what do you do if a class is divided over an isue- some parents do want more information than others- it will be difficult to meet all needs and maybe during a first session an antenatal teacher could find out what people DONT want to know as well as what they DO want to know. At least then parents can have a discussion about it.

Thread hijack (sorry)

Was so excited when I saw your name LindenAVery!

That's who I'm named after My mum was reading the Thomas Covenant trilogy when she was pregnant and so few people know what I'm talking about when I explain it.

That's all.