To feel angry at my sisters NCT antenatal course teacher.

[LBsmum]

My sister is due in December and over the weekend has developed complications resulting in her being admitted into hospital ? on phoning her course teacher to explain she would be missing the remaining evening classes the woman responded by saying ?Oh I hope that doesn?t mean they will induce you ? urhhh ? which I find an outstandingly unsupportive and inappropriate reaction. Further during part of the course my sister managed to attend this teacher produced epidural needles to show the class whilst emphasising what a particularly gruesome procedure it was ? again I consider this inappropriate and can only assume she is trying to scare people into not having an epidural.
This is not an anti-NCT rant, I am a member and my own antenatal class was run by a practising midwife who sensibly discussed epidurals as part of a range of options available. I am just feeling frustrated by the natural birth high horse my sisters teacher seems to be on and feel bad for encouraging my sister to take the course.

Yes, Quattro, you were definitely taught by a loon who refused to listen to what you are asking.

Nobody finds pain ennobling. Not at all.

But then there are some people who might choose, in light of the risks associated with epidurals, interventions etc, to want to learn about ways of managing pain in their own way which includes breathing, massage etc.

She did recommend peppermint foot oil. I think a whole lesson was devoted to it. Having given birth twice, if anyone had approached me with peppermint foot oil, I would have done them some serious damage.

Thanks for your responses, first time on mumsnet chatroom ! my sister gave birth to her first son late last night - without any intervention, she was admitted with a urine infection and they didnt pick up she was in labour until quite far on so no time for epidural, she also says it came very close to a c- section.

She mentioned her disappointment with NCT course leader again to me today, have told her not to worry about it, the point of the class for her was to meet other local women, for info it was actually an emailed response from the NCT woman so if she wanted to pursue a complaint ( like she will have any time for such things!) she could do.

LBsmum - I am an active member of the NCT and have completed part of their antenatal training (currently on hold while I have my own baby!). I think this teacher acted unprofessionally and your sister should complain - just knock out a short email to the teacher expressing her upset. At the very least, this teacher should be made aware of how her attitude has affected one of her group.

Antenatal education should be about providing impartial information, advice and support to expectant mothers. It certainly shouldn't be about pressurising or scaring women. I'm really sorry your sister has had this experience, and wish her well with the rest of her pregnancy and the birth of her baby. xx

My pre-natal group leader wanted me to use a (snigger) TENS machine....oh and the of course obligatory peppermint foot oil . Why did I need diamorphine, when I could have chosen the oil....

Well, it sounds to me like I had a lucky escape when I tried to book my NCT class when I was 8 weeks pregnant. It was already full.

Still, I met up with the class post-birth and I think that class must have been a real disappointment to the ante-natal leader. 2 c-sections, lots of pain relief for the others and only 2 real nappies between them.

My NCT teacher had a home birth - induced every time as she likes to go over. Said that real nappies aren't more environmentally friendly when you compare the carbon footprint of shipping cotton from India. Explained sections with a really kewl Play Mobil set!

To be honest there hasn't been that much difference between my NHS class and NCT, probably the main difference has been spending a session dedicated to breastfeeding, but then we were all second timers at the NHS group and there is a separate BF session. (Apparently the NHS class is unique in that it is a more informal group, like NCT do. We had an observer last week as they want to copy the model for the rest of the country).

TinkerBellesMum That's interesting. I see you live in the Birmingham area. NCT teachers are leading some of the antenatal classes for the NHS in Birmingham and have been doing for a few years now.

We had NCT hand outs, if that's related. I got the impression she works at the hospital (in a medical role) because of the way she spoke about other women that have given birth there.

tinksmum! how the devil ARE you?

I'm OK, still hanging in! Although not expecting to go much further between still having contractions (5 weeks later) and the baby not being big enough I think we're entering a standoff between the hospital and the baby to see who can hold out the longest!

rolledhedgehog - sorry if this counts as teaching grandma to suck eggs, but you could always say to your classes that you have the needle available and if anyone WANTS to see it, they can come and look at it at the end. This allows the ones (like I would have been) who would rather eat their own eyes than see the needle to avoid it.

Congratulations on your new nephew! Shame about the bloody rude NCT woman but you bump into lots of very opinionated people once you get pregnant or actually have a baby.

well done you, tm. how far along are you now?

29 +4 weeks. Two weeks today is when Tink was born and someone at the hospital gave me a bit longer than that as the most of got left last week.

Congrats on your nephew OP.

Agree over viewing the needle being optional - when I toured the hospital and we were asked if we wanted to see the operating theatre we all said no. You might end up needing/wanting something but doesn't mean you always want to see it in advance.

thumbwitch - yeah I thought about that as I was typing...it is a good idea.

Quattrocento - . I don't represent the NCT and can only talk for myself and the teachers and courses I have seen in action. I have honestly never met the sort of loon teachers described on here but I am not in denial that they exist. In order for these teachers to change their ways or to stop teaching they need to be complained to and about.

is 31 weeks one of the milestones? (apols for hijack) and i have No Idea what the latter part of your post means.

It is a milestone. In 2 weeks today I will be at the same point I was when Tink was born. Last Monday I was told I don't have more than 4 weeks left (I'm still getting contractions hourly at the most, quite strong you can see them happening much to the horror of people around me who don't see everyone ) which puts me a few days past when Tink was born.

To OP the NCT leader sounds like she needs to be reported, we could do without idiots like htis spreading their "word" to worried parents to be.

Personally my NCT teacher was lovely, not judgmental or airy fairy at all, gave all the info inpatially and was v helpful and a good laugh to boot.

However an (ex) friend of mne is heavily involved in her local NCT and has become a braying, sanctimonious, tedious dullard. All her friends are NCT types too, not my idea of fun I'm afraid.especially with their "the only reason women have interventions are beacuse it's forced on them without it they'd cope naturally" bulls**t. My dd may have died without intervention so please stick your heads back up your arses.

Sorry to be crude but the NCT gets my goat.

Agree peacelily, I was so bloody relieved when they intervened at DD's birth. I could have married the Dr who finally got her out.

Cory - I didn't say or imply that all inductions are horrible.

But they ARE often much more painful - which is why many women are offered an epidural at the same time the induction is being set up. I personally would not want to be induced without having the OPTION of having an epidural.

"mums see promtion of natural birth and breastfeeding as potentially being issues to question their status as 'good-enough parents' rather than understanding why they are promoted and not viewing it from a personal stance.(Difficult I will admit!)"

Yes - maybe it needs to be made clearer that normal birth (by which I mean birth without augmentation, induction, ventouse, forceps, episiotomy or c-section) is promoted by the NCT and the RCM because it's a) possible for most women if they receive appropriate care in labour (if they don't get appropriate care it's quite likely they'll end up needing these interventions to get their baby safely born) b ) generally healthier for women and babies and b) usually what women want.

Intervention rates in this country are much too high - everyone who works in maternity services KNOWS this and every midwife worth her salt is working to reduce it. I find it so disheartening that people see the NCT's and RCM's focus on raising rates of normal birth as some sort of cryto-facist uber-mother agenda, rather than seeing it for what it is: HEALTH promotion!

I think the saddest thing is the huge gap between what women want and what they get when they go into hospital to give birth. Personally I think NCT teachers should just tell women the truth: "Upright positions are generally better for you and your baby and may shorten your labour, but there's a good chance you'll end up lying helpless on the bed for most of your labour because your midwife won't have the time or the energy to encourage you to mobilise. Don't forget to ask good and early for that epidural that you thought you didn't want - you'll need one after you've been lying/sitting on the bed alone for several hours in an overheated delivery room in strong labour!" and "you're better off pushing spontaneously in second stage - less likely to tear or need an episiotomy, but your midwife could have done her training 20 years ago and may well encourage you to do prolonged breath holding and pushing while lying on your back or sitting on your bum. If you've had that epidural it'll make it easier for you - won't be so bad having your legs in stirrups (she'll probably advise that too as pushing in a supine position with your legs on the bed can be really tough). And you won't have to have any extra anaesthetic when she does the episiotomy/ventouse you'll almost inevitably need to expedite the birth (because you're trying to push your baby uphill while depriving it of oxygen with your prolonged breath holding - can cause dips in fetal heart rate).

At least then they wouldn't be blamed for setting women up with unrealistic expectations about active birth and spontaneous delivery.

peacelilly - I didn't join my local NCT because I couldn't afford classes at the time I had my first and I have nothing in common with the women who are involved in doing local NCT activities.

But I do support the work the NCT does as an organisation - the political lobbying, the research, the helplines and the information they provide for parents. The NCT volunteers who set up postnatal groups for mums at a local level and who do local fundraising are in no way representative of the beliefs or attitudes of the charity itself.

"an (ex) friend of mne is heavily involved in her local NCT and has become a braying, sanctimonious, tedious dullard. All her friends are NCT types"

It's really wearisome to hear - yet again - the NCT itself being bashed by people who take issue with individuals at a local level who have not been trained by and who don't actually work for the charity! It's like bashing the RSPCA as being unhygenic and eccentric because you take offence at smelly old ladies who shake tins for the charity and who let their dogs lick their faces and sleep in their beds! And what exactly is an NCT 'type'? I donate to this charity and support their aims. I've attended some of their study days. I assume I'm therefore and NCT 'type'. What does that mean?

QUATTOCENTRO - you've posted at length on mumsnet ridiculing your NCT teacher and your NCT course. I'm wondering if you've contacted the NCT to ask for your refund yet - I bet you paid quite a bit for your course and really, if it was that bad you should get your money back. If your teacher refused to give you any information about using opiates and epidurals in labour then you really, really should report her. My understanding is that this goes completely against the NCT's ethos, which is about promoting informed choice.

"It's really wearisome to hear - yet again - the NCT itself being bashed by people who take issue with individuals at a local level who have not been trained by and who don't actually work for the charity! "

Sorry, I thought the OP was about an NCT ante-natal teacher? Did I get this wrong? Do you mean, they have untrained ante-natal teachers? Surely not.

I am an NCT type myself, in the sense of having led an NCT group for many years. Untrained. So I haven't got it in for NCT types as such.

But I will have to admit that the NCT trained teacher was the one who kept telling me I must feel bad about having a caesarian and if I had only done the NCT ante-natal course things would have been totally different because the NCT promotes natural birth (yeah what? so my dcs wouldn't have had genetic problems that made birth dnagerous?).

I never told her my caesarian was a bad experience- she told me. How is this helpful to somebody, to tell them after the event that they should feel upset?

The problem with the OP is that the teacher tried to frighten someone about a procedure that may well prove necessary. A bit like my brother telling me that my new teacher was really scary. Unhelpful. The truth it that induction may be unpleasant and unnecessary, it may equally well be unpleasant but necessary, and the third possibility is that it will not be particularly unpleasant at all. But 'oh, I hope you won't need...' isn't helpful in any of those situations.

If I were to go to an ordinary hospital check-up, what I would not want my friends to say is 'oh, I do hope you won't need an injection/scan/endoscopy' - experience shows that they are absolutely horrible'. Yes, no doubt they are, but how is pointing that out helping me? What is wrong with comforting platitudes?

"you'll need one after you've been lying/sitting on the bed alone for several hours in an overheated delivery room in strong labour!"

You'll need one- sorry, but this really does sound to me like you are saying "every woman needs one". Which isn't true.

I didn't need one under those circumstances and would have found it extremely unhelpful to have anyone - midwife or NCT teacher- telling me that you will need one. I would have felt that was taking away my decision.

I also found that the midwife was very keen to keep me moving but that I was very ill and tired at the time so didn't want to. Still managed to give birth after induction without an epidural ( as did many other women I knew). But really don't see how it would have helped to be told beforehand that "the midwife will want this"- when my midwife clearly wanted something totally different.

All in all, I am glad your mythical "truth"-telling midwife stayed away from my labours.