to think its disgusting the people with money can get to the front of the nhs treatment que, treated in a nhs hospial by a nhs doctor

[freespiritfreedom]

i mean wtf is going wromg with this country ?

dh needs to see a consultant, its a 12 week wait nhs or if you pay, to see the same dr they can get you in, in a few weeks

its fucked up

Doctors who do private work aren't usually taking their time away from the NHS, as their private work is in addition to their NHS work.

To the OP - YABU as you are basing your opinion on inaccurate information and don't understand how the system works.

And please don't assume the care you receive in a private hospital is any better than that you would receive in an NHS hospital - I did shifts as a nurse at a Bupa hospital where after 6pm there were no doctors on site at all, and if a post op patient had complications we had to dial 999

The doctors I know who do this have chosen to work part time for the NHS and on their days 'off' work privately. If they didn't work privately they could or would do those days for the NHS if they wanted a full salary.

poshtottie - that is appalling and I think someone has given you wrong advice. This is something we've had to look into recently as my husband temporarily works abroad and I spend some time with him although we've kept our uk base. Like you, we pay tax, NI etc but some friends in same situation have recently been told they may not be eligible for NHS treatment if not in UK a certain time before. However, we were told that armed forces/MOD are exempt from this rule and should get free NHS regardless of whether he is out of the country. You should follow this up as you shouldn't have to pay privately

But surely it doesn't work that as a doctor you can work whatever hours you like for the NHS?

Surely any given NHS Trust has capacity/finances to recruit x hours of doctors, which they might do in various combinations of f/t and p/t staff. If someone who has a p/t post suddenly decides they want to work f/t, that doesn't just happen, unless there happens to be a vacancy for the hours they want to do.

That sounds rational.

Freespiritfreedom - NHS and private health care are two separate services regardless of whether or not an individual doctor works for both.

The NHS provides a service to everyone, its not perfect but since it is free at point of treatment then its pretty damn good.

If you want private service you have to pay for it, otherwise you should take what the NHS has to offer.

Whether a doctor choses to work privately and for the NHS is irrelevant.

YABU

mumoverseas, that is what the consultant told him. He is on leave till Feb so needs to be done soonish.

Yes it is appalling that he has to pay.

another possibly uncomfortable truth we have to stomach is that waiting times are not unconnected to urgency. doctors have to do a possibly callous calculation about how best to use their resources. which are not infinite

patient 1 - headaches and eye problems, and other symptoms. pregnant. 29 years old. could be a tumour. could be MS. either way history suggests a 90 per cent chance of something nasty. MRI scan MONDAY. Consultant on Tuesday. (this happened. to me)

patient 2 - strange numbness on face. no other symptoms. could be a tumour. could be MS. but it's probably not. scan in 6 months. (this happened to my friend)

it's not perfect - because the resources are finite - but it's what the docs have to do. and even if patient 1 didn;t have anything nasty and, in fact, patient 2 did, the doc's decision was, on the info available, almost certainly the correct one.

your ignorance is distressing freespiritfreedom, but perhaps not surprising. Your mean spirit however is just unplesant

poshtottie, it may well be the consultant didn't understand fully the situation. I'm 99% certain MOD are exempt from this rule as are armed forces. You should query this not just for now, but for any future problems. A few friends have had this recently in a few UK hospitals and think there has been a bit of a clampdown on treatment for 'foreigners'. However, once the situation is clarified, ie UK resident, temporarily working overseas, paying tax etc, it should be sorted. Hope your DH's operation goes ok.

I fundamentally disagree with private healthcare (actually, you don't get what you pay for - who provides the back up for out of hours care, for ITU, for when it goes wrong in the private sector ... the NHS). Anyway, that little rant aside, if it all went private like dentistry has where we live and our children are also private as we can't get an NHS dentist for them we are having to wait until 6 January for ds1 (8) to have a cavity filled that was discovered yesterday - so what exactly are we paying for? Just think about it before harping that you'd rather it all went private.

Poshtottie - your dh needs to go and see his medical officer (who will double as his GP) if he is RN, who will have him referred to a consultant and on to an MOD ward. If he is ill, or the hernia is troubling him, he should be declared unfit for sea and have this sorted. He MUST see the MO and explain the situation to him.

Message deleted

Often private work effectively subsidises the NHS, directly and indirectly. So perhaps it's a necessary evil. But I can understand why it feels galling and unfair. In France and Germany you don't wait to see doctors at all. People wouldn't put up with that.

Blu's right - may the saints preserve me from ever being treated by a doctor who does no NHS practice. The private sector is subject to some regulation but it doesn't begin to compare to the standards that NHS docs have to meet. The best doctors work in the NHS and may do private practice as well depending on their specialty (there's not a big market for some specialist areas in the private sector).

The government is bringing NHS waiting lists down - maximum 18 weeks wait by the end of this year - and tackling game-playing by trusts by including waits for scans and everything else in that measure (although I can't quite remember the detail).

A lot of the investment HAS been wasted but that's by the government and their endless reorganisations and extra levels of bureaucracy, not the NHS.

Haven't seen the figures for Germany recently but France used to spend a hell of a lot more on their health system than the UK. And of course it isn't free.

The US spends a massive amount on a health system that is desperately unfair - even people with health insurance are told what drugs they can and can't have and which doctors they can and can't see. There is good evidence that there is a shocking number of avoidable deaths as a result of the way the US system works. I know what I'd rather have.

I agree edam, the US system sounds a nightmare - I have heard that people are badly let down by insurance companies making arbitrary and unfair commercial decisions on care that do not correspond to what people thought they were paying for, or what was contractually agreed. Give me the apparently imperfect NHS any time. We have better longevity and infant mortality rates than the US by a long shot - we must be doing something right over here.

It costs a minimum of £23k just in fees to train as a doctor let alone living costs for 7 years... why shouldn't they be able to earn well?
They still have to do their nhs time first.

YABU.

Eachpeach, same for an academic but we probably earn half of what they do, which has always smarted a bit.

Custardo, they aren't doing two jobs. They're effectively self-employed, and the NHS are one of their clients.

I have worked in the NHS for 27 years. Yes, it is not perfect, but what institution is?

The doctors I work with are not greedy f, but hard working, intelligent, compassionate people who have worked hard to get where they are.

Perhaps if we did not get so many people in clinics not attending, and needing another appointment, the op's partner might not have had to wait so long to see a consultant.

Maybe if we charged £20 for each missed appointment it might make people attend their appointment, or at least have the courtesy to phone the clinic and let them know they will not be attending. That appointment could then be given to someone else.

There, rant over.

scareyteacher, dh is not RN but RFA, so is a civilian.

Poshtottie, he is still working for the MOD.

Can he contact his MP. Does not seem fair that he is paying taxes etc and not getting NHS treatment when he needs it.

Wow, what a flaming big chip on your shoulder there, OP. Weighing you down a bit???? Have you even bothered to read any of the posts?

You are being incredibly unreasonable. If less people needed to use the NHS then it might be able to service those that need it a hell of a lot better.

I wouldn't have wanted the study to be a doctor, that's for sure. Not to mention the continuous study thereafter. And I'm saying that as someone who has been an academic!!!!