to think its disgusting the people with money can get to the front of the nhs treatment que, treated in a nhs hospial by a nhs doctor

[freespiritfreedom]

i mean wtf is going wromg with this country ?

dh needs to see a consultant, its a 12 week wait nhs or if you pay, to see the same dr they can get you in, in a few weeks

its fucked up

12 weeks is pretty fast. I remember when it would be 18 months wait to see a consulatnt. Good ol'Tories.

do the doctors get taxed for a econd job?

Message deleted

dh needs a hernia operation, was told he could not go on a nhs list as he works at sea for up to 4 months. He is employed by the MOD and pays tax here.

PIL are paying for him to go private, so I've booked him for two weeks time. Thank goodness as he is in a lot of pain.

They'll be paying 40% anyway custardo.

"Also if consultants either worked for the NHS or private hospitals the NHS would be far, far worse. This way at least the NHS can keep some decent consultants who also see people privately. " Hmmm - I have heard hat in many many cases it is actually the best consultants who DO d NHS work - because of the resarch opportunities and the kudos of practice in a good teaching hospital. I know experiecned doctors who will not be treated anywhere but in an NHS hospital because of the quality of staff and facilities - like ICU etc. It doesn't always follow that doctors who work in private practice are the best ones.

I agree that s Dr practising in thier own time and paying the NHS fo the facilities is not queue jumping, BUT my aunt had lots of tests privately, and very quickly, and then umed and aaahed about proceeding privately (because her scheme went bust), and the consultnt said he could divert her into his NHS list...which would have meant that in effect she was fast-tracked into that list. [hm]

Goodness, what unpleasantness.

NHS and private work are seperate. There is no queue-jumping. Most NHS doctors who also do private work have to provide a minimum number of hours each week for the NHS as part of their contract. Very few doctors are solely private over here.

There are already hundreds of doctors who are currently unemployed thanks to this government's handling of doctors' training. The NHS apparently doesn't need more doctors at present as there aren't enough jobs to go round.

If a doctor uses NHS facilities for private work, then they will definitely be paying the PCT for use of the facilities and support staff, it win't cost the NHS a bean. NHS clinics and theatre time still take precedence on use of facilities.

Why should it be anyone's business if a doctor choses to spend their own spare time to do private work? They are supply a service that people demand in spite of the NHS. I personally don't do private work, but don't begrudge my colleagues who do as long as they do their share for the NHS.

Some of us work our tails off and resent being called 'greedy fuckers' in return.

"There are already hundreds of doctors who are currently unemployed thanks to this government's handling of doctors' training. The NHS apparently doesn't need more doctors at present as there aren't enough jobs to go round."

Doctors too? I knew this was the case for nurses, SALT and OT had no idea it affected Dr's too,

I think the NHS is bloody marvellous. I also think NHS doctors are paid well for the amount of time they train. More than equivalent professions (lawyers and lecturers have equivalent training times and the starting salary is MUCH less).

I do think that doctors who work privately are taking their TIME away from the NHS, which would make the waiting lists longer.

I think if they want to do this, or to leave the NHS, they should pay back the amount by which their medical education was publically subsidised by the public purse. Which is quite a lot!

I would also never use private healthcare on principle. Blu is correct about some doctors' motivations for staying solely NHS-based. I know very few doctor who have entered and remained in medicine for the money. Most of us enjoy learning about our patients, strive to make our care as good as it can be and enjoy passing our knowledge and skills onto the next generation of doctors and nurses. That is why we work for the NHS and not for profit-based companies.

Good for you Emma 1977!

so they pay 40% anyway - but i thought a second job you got a thord of your wages took in taxes - as well? no?

IMO doctors should have one job.

YABU, at least make an intelligent arguement rather than just yelling greedy f*ers over and over!

People are trying on here to explain to you how the system works, and how private care actually helps NHS hospitals.

I know a couple of cardiologists who work their arses off for the NHS, and when they have done their job, go off and do some private work. Yes, I am quite jealous of the big house and the nanny, it's another world - but I didn't train relentlessly for years to do that job, they did.
They also have to spend their lives in hospitals (rather them than me!) and take huge responsibilities if things go wrong.

The NHS isn't perfect by any means, I know that as well as anyone and feel like I've been through the mangle at the NHS' pleasure for the past couple of years, but what docs you once they've clocked off from their NHS job is just irrelevant.

Working their arses off goes for all NHS staff too, not just defending the docs who do private BTW! My sis has worked as a nurse and paramedic for NHS for 16 years...

Jimjams- Oh yes, doctors too. I really feel for anyone coming to the end of medical school or in their first couple of post-grad years trying to get training jobs.

OP: I expect that it is a wait of "up to 12 weeks" to see a consultant - you might find that the actual wait is much less

other than that YABU

My BIL, aged 12 then, was feeling very poorly, after a few trips to the dr, and a trip to the hospital, he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. He was transferred immediately to another hospital where within a matter of hours he underwent lifesaving treatment to cut away the tumor. He also had MONTHS of care, scans, checkups after, Chemo and radiotherapy. We, as relatives, were also put up at the hospital relatives rooms for 2 weeks while he was in intensive care so we could be on hand. He still has checkups now, every year. He's now 21.

Was this private??? No, NHS.

I would recommend watching Sicko by Michael Moore.
That should show how wonderful it is to have free healthcare for all.
Watched it last night , and whilst not entirely balanced about all the healthcare systems featured, it made me proud to be a UK citizen and proud of the NHS.

LaTrucha how are doctors who also work privately taking their time away from the NHS, thereby increasing waiting lists.

Presumably, doctors who work within the NHS are contracted to work and paid for x hours, so if they then choose to also work privately in their days/hours off from their NHS job, they are not taking any time away are they?

Freespiritfreedom.. Your attitude is odd.

You blame greedy doctors????? Really? Don't bite the hand that feeds you - it's those guys we go to when we have a problem.

Should they work for less? Would you work for less? I disagre that they work less hard than others. If it were so easy, we'd all spend over 10 years in training and get the amazing qualifications needed to be a MD.

ANd, life in the NHS can be very unrewarding. My sister used to give her time free of charge to treat children and immigrants... until the kids decided to throw rocks at the windows and the cars of the dentists there to treat them. She never went back after that, she was upset and disgusted about it.

Sorry, haven't namechanged back, but feel that your view is not really valid and wanted to say that.

custy - that's not a serious question is it? of course they do.

re op - the bottom line is that as a nation we spend £xxx a year on healthcare. if a portion of that didn;t come directly from people's purses it would have to come from somewhere else. where do you think it should come from? while there are some potential answers (higher taxes on alcohol? less spending on defence? more tax on flying?) once you start to answer the question it illustrates just how complex any answers are. all of these have knock on socio-economic effects - both on individuals and on us nationally. I am not wholly sure but it could well be the case that getting that money out of the purses of those well enough off to afford it and unfortunate enough to need the care could actually be the fairest and most efficient way. I'm not convinced, far from it, but I am realistic. I don;t think we can actually afford a free at the point of delivery NHS any more - not without a radical cultural change and massive shifts in taxation that just aren;t going to happen. It saddens me greatly but I strongly suspect that's the reality. If you do have answers, instead of only being able to blame the alleged greed of doctors, then I'd be interested to hear them.

MTAS caused a lot of heartache and candidates with no posts

I get private health cover from work and I have to say I'm sooooo grateful for it. My GP referred me to see a consultant. With my private healthcare I saw him the next evening. Coincidently, my GP also sent my referral letter to my local hospital for an appointment with the consultant there - I'm still waiting for an appointment even. I wouldn't pay for private health care if I didn't get it from work but I've made use of it so many times, especially for DS1 to see a neurologist within a week of needing to be seen instead of the 6 months he'd have to have waited ordinarily Its not right but its the way it is.

In London, mot people are seen within 18 weeks. I was put down for an urgent appt (because I'm PG) with Neurology, they took about 10 weeks still.

was askin! didn't know hatwoman.