to be getting a little bit fed up with a friend who...

[beforesunrise]

she's one of my oldest and closest friends, a bit neurotic, but aren't we all, but a good girl really and i love her. but she is starting to seriously annoy me and i want to talk to her about it before i snap one day and damage our relation.

basically she's my age, 32, v beautiful, fabulous career which makes her tons of money, just got married and dh makes even more money- they are in the process of buying a mansion in Surrey virtually mortgage free. so far so good, am happy for her, i have made different choices and have a different life but that's not what grates me.

every time the topic of children comes up, she always says: 'yes, dh wants children, and i do too, just not now'. when i ask her, well, if not now when, it becomes clear she doesn't actually want them, she starts saying how she doesn't want to stop working even for 5 months because she doesn't want to hurt her career, how she doesn't want to damage her perineum in childbirth, how she doesn't want to get stretch-marks and have her boobs sag and her tummy all wrinkly, and breastfeeding revolts her (she doesn't even want me to breastfeed my dd in front of her because she finds it distasteful- i tell her she's crazy and do it anyway!) and she loves her sleep too much etc etc.

to me these sound selfish and stupid reasons not to have kids, sure we are all scared of having kids but you just get on with it don't you? she is in the lucky position of being able to afford live-in help if she wants to so it can't possibly be that bad. moreover (and ithink that's what really grates me) all of the above has happened to me- career stalled, perineum damaged (thankfully now fixed), saggy boobs, wrinkly tummy, no sleep in 3 years etc etc. so i am starting to get a little bit pissed off that she seems to think it's ok to slate my life constantly and thoughtlessly, tbh none of the above is a big deal, my dds are beautiful, but still it annoys me as i think she is judging me a little bit for my frumpy clothes and unmanicured hands and (proudly) battle-scarred body kind of thing.

personally i think she needs help- no one loves their body so much that she'd rather not have children to preserve it intact. but do i just tell her this- or tell her to stop banging on about it as my patience is wearing thin- or say nothing and let her talk on?

thanks if you've read so far...

Well the caps worked well

the OP doesn't keep bring the subject up, her friend does

but no, have re-read your post and you are not part of my intended audience.
Feel free to ignore mad shouty woman

sorry

Well, next time she starts talking about saggy breasts and so on, stop her and point out saying these things is quite hurtful to you.

thank god for SPG.... i wish people would read the posts before getting all judgeypants!
SHE BRINGS IT UP! SHE ASKS! SHE CARES! AND SHE IS THE ONE THINKING MY LIFESTYLE IS ATROCIOUS, AND SAYS IT TO MY FACE, NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND!!!

why would i react badly if she doesnt want children?? i want her to be happy- that includes choosing to do whats best for her, and i just want to help her be happy with her choices (an d not putting me down in the process)

YABU

You seem to thing she SHOULD want kids? I Why?

The only concern I would have would be if she has not been straight about this to her DP. But otherwise she does not sound cut out for it - why are you so desperate for her to produce kids that she clearly doesnt want and would leave with the help all day?

I know a couple who LOVE the fact that they chose not to have kids. They have taken on risky business ventures together which they wouldnt have done if they had kids security to thin of, and made a lot of money which they spend on travelling a lot. After about 40 yrs of marraige they have one of the freshest most functional relationships I know.

Are any of her comments untrue really - having kids IS scary and gross - a fact that those of us with a stong instinct to reproduce can get over but if you just wrote the facts on paper with no emotions involved - gosh! who in their right mind would want sprogs?

There are enought people in the world, we dont have an underpopulation problem. Leave the reproducing to the people who want to do it.

My sil doesn't have kids, and doesn't seem to want them, although does get upset when I get pregnant...

Her latest excuse is that she couldn't afford being on NHS maternity leave but then spends £30,000 on improvments to the house...

Some people just can't seem to say, ' I don't want children...' Or at least some women...

"Some people just can't seem to say, ' I don't want children...' Or at least some women..."

yes I think this is true, I'm sure the women who 'come out' about not wanting kids get a lot of cr@p like "ooh you'll feel different when it happens" and "you dont realise what you're missing till you have them"

• but whilst this is true of many woman, some women who do give into the pressure DONT adjust and DO resent the loss of their freedom for the rest of their lives.

I have friends who've had a life time of their parents throwing the sacrifices they had to make when they came along in their faces.

Maybe this friend is really stuggling with the social pressure on her to have kids and is looking to the OP for some validation that, no, kids dont just slot into your life without altering it and yes, its not all joy and fun, sometimes its bl00dy awful. Maybe the OP is the only one she trusts to open up about this to

I am sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick further down. I should learn to read and re-read.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe she does want kids? that she has been trying and nothings happened etc?

Some people just don't want kids, simple. Let them be. But what is sad is when it's down to sheer vanity.

"But what is sad is when it's down to sheer vanity."

I dont think this is ever the case

I am vain - but also broody so that overrides it.

People who dont want kids just dont have the instinct / urge / whatever it is that overrides all logic (cause on paper, having kids is MADNESS!)

if someone doesn't have these feelings towards having kids then the disadvantages (looks, money, career etc) may be more loud and clear

i think you should stop asking her.
its pretty rude to be so pushy

When I was 32, I had a similar life to your friend and would have answered the question in a similar way (though not the bf bit). I used to also get very annoyed when people asked me when I would be having children.

I had the trump card that we'd been diagnosed with infertility, so when people got too out of order dh used to answer 'we'd love to but I'm sterile' which used to shut them up for good.

These people do exist.
My friend is obsessed with her body, to the point where she goes to bed hungry. She has also had quite a bit of cosmetic surgery. On numerous occasions she has stated, "if I was guaranteed to get my figure back, I would have a child tomorrow."
She is also considering adoption. Funnily enough OP, she is incredibly wealthy also.

P.S I'm also vain.

How old are your children? When I was newly married and we stayed with friends with preschoolers (on the other side of the world)I was completely put off children. Next time we visited they were older, and we could play games with them, read to them, play the piano with them etc. (things more in our immediate skill set) and I thought to myself "I can do this, the baby stage is not forever!"

Talk of "children" still terrifies dh. He found it easier to talk about "child" and take it from there.

I think your friendship may be doomed, as even if she does have children your experiences and opinions are going to be so different that I doubt it will bring you closer together.

aargh!

thanks everyone.

what i am taking away from this thread:

a) perhaps unconsciously i am a bit jealous of her- because of all the nice things she has, and because of her immaculate grooming and leisure time. i shouldnt let that colour my reactions to her words. perhaps she is also a bit jealous of me.

b) i should accept that we are different

c) i should let her talk about the topic, but not initiate, and not probe

d) if she says things that hurt me, i should point that out, but not make a big deal of it.

thanks for helping me think this through. i think perhaps our friendship is, if not doomed exactly, not destined to deepen anytime soon. apart from anything else, i live in NW London, and she is about to move to Surrey, so that will make it pretty hard to meet on a regular basis. i am a bit

wow you're patient
SHE DOESN'T BRING UP THE SUBJECT

I think you should be happy with what you have. Material possessions don't make for happiness. I would say she is better off without children-some people are.

it is technically possible to have your own genetic child but hire a US surrogate to give birth to it if she chooses adn then have nannies. She doesn't need to have to do all those things she thinks she hates. Give her that option.

I remember once taking the 3 children into work something I did about once every 2 years. They were about 1, 3 and 5. I was in the company's underground car park and we had a very very old Vauxhall Viva car. I got out the three jolly rosy cheeked children in their second hand clothes and drawing up next to me was a woman my age (28) who worked with me, single, immaculate, steeping out of her open topped mercedes and all I thought was wow I'm so lucky to have these three gorgeous children even in the old car even with them in second hand clothes rather than be her. I think she's never had children at all.

No offence Xenia, she was probably thinking the same about you. By the way, you can still have a flashy car , look immacualte and still have children.