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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want my muslim dh to participate in christmas?

110 replies

firstontheway · 30/10/2008 13:16

It's never been a problem before, we've discussed what will happen when we have kids etc, and we agreed that although we will be raising little one to be muslim, one half of her family (mine) are extremely lapsed christians and therefore she can celebrate both eid and christmas. With the priviso of course that we explain what christmas is, why as muslims we do not see it as a religious event, but as a nice opportunity to visit grandparents/swap pesents/ eat nice food etc etc.

However things seem to have changed now our first baby is on the way (not even due till March!) and he seems to be backtracking a bit and suggesting it's not allowed within the islamic faith and from next year we should think about 'dropping it'. Which I understand if I was suggesting my parents took her to church or something, but they would never go against our religion like that, nor would we present it as a religious festival (at least until she is old enough to understand nativity plays etc at which point we teach religious tolerance ). Am just a bit upset as my parents would be DEVESTATED if we didn't go to them for christmas... they live a while away from us and while we see dh's parents all the time, it's really special when we see mine, and isn't family what christmas is all about anyway?

Probably a bit premature, I'm hoping he'll change his mind when we go to my parent's this year and he sees how fun and wonderful it is. But just a bit hormonal and upset.

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 30/10/2008 23:43

lisa - So you are Muslim (You don't celebrate Christmas at all, and your DH converted to Islam). Why did you say a few posts down that you are not Muslim?

Isn't being truthful about your faith part of "you are either your religion or you are not"?

Or are you practicing taqiyya here?

Starbear · 30/10/2008 23:44

lisad123 My sister is JW and doesn't celebrate any of it. The boys are still okay now adults. They still have a get together because its a few days off work and they keep the TV off and have large dinner and play games. This year my Mum is going to spend Christmas with them I'm sure she is going to love it. When the boys were younger I did feel a little sad but I never interfered with my sister's plans for her children. It's only a couple of days and we have spent some lovely Weekends together around other things day trips, art parties. We as a family just don't sweat it.

PortofinoPumpkin · 30/10/2008 23:44

I really don't think that Xmas, as most people celebrate it in the UK, has anything much to do with religion. Most of the rituals are either pagan or of recent invention - Xmas trees being a prime example. It really is purely a cultural celebration for many people.

Here in Belgium, it's St Nicolas that brings the kids' presents on the 6th of December. Xmas is far more of a family get together and eat loads kind of day. And New Year is actually the bigger celebration. We've adpated to that really as we want dd to be doing the same things as her school friends. We're not at all religious and the state schools here are totally secular. We still do the tree and stuff though.

lisad123 · 30/10/2008 23:44

no not a muslim, a JW, just didnt think my own religion was really relevant iyswim.

Starbear · 30/10/2008 23:49

lisa123 It is relevant because you have such a strong point of view.

lisad123 · 30/10/2008 23:52

I dont see why it is, my views are the same no matter what relgion. but can understand why you asked. Also dont want thread to e about me, when the OP was asking for help.

Starbear · 30/10/2008 23:58

I think she's gone to bed now. Goodnight everyone and let your god go with you. (Dave Allen my dad fav comedian) I wish there was an emotion with a kiss.

lisad123 · 30/10/2008 23:58

x

CoteDAzur · 31/10/2008 06:27

lisa - With all due respect, I think it is very relevant that that someone advocating zero-tolerance, black-&-white, with-us-or-against us attitude is the member of an apocalyptic fringe sect who would let her children die rather than allow them to have blood transfusions.

To each their own and all that, but knowing your are a Jehovah's Witness helps put your viewpoint into perspective.

mumoverseas · 31/10/2008 07:09

oops, can of worms opened here cote! I'm not JW and wouldn't normally defend them but I remember years ago using that same quote when they came door knocking. I actually became quite friendly with one of them women and took the time to sit and listen to her own point of view, something that I'd not done before. I understand now that although they don't allow their children (or indeed themselves) to receive blood transfusions, they do allow them to have plasma (I think it was that) so its not quite as black and white as we sometimes hear.
I think the posters who've said its a shame we can't all respect each others different relgions/cultures etc are right. I'm sure there are parts of different religions that others find ridiculous. I'm catholic and I must admit that the 'no contraception' part is a bit crazy in this day and age. I'm sure I'll get slated on this but if everyone actually thought about their own religious beliefs etc, there is always something that they may question at some time in their life?
I hope the OP has taken on board some of the constructive advice and manages to reach an amicable compromise with her husband.
Happy halloween to all you believers out there and happy friday to all you muslims on your holy day. (sorry don't know all the other religious days)

CoteDAzur · 31/10/2008 07:29

I respect JW as much as any other belief system.

Nonetheless, it is relevant to know that the only MNer saying that Muslims shouldn't go to Christmas dinners with family belongs to a very strict fundamentalist denomination.

onthewarpath · 31/10/2008 07:50

Madness We do live in the UK and are not trying to "avoid" Christmas. Trying so would mean not going out of the house from the 20 of October 'til the new year. Still does not mean that we should celebrate it just because it is there. I have been to my family's house at Christmas time to be with them and because it also happens to be a school holiday, I do not think it was celebrating Christmas because it was very clear in my mind that I went to see my family and nothing else. My mum has got strong christian religious beliefs, my dad does not believe in the existence of God they gave me a christian education and yet , growing up I realised it was not my belief. I think if you converted to please someone it is going to be very difficult for you as you will at some point "crack", loose your identity and feel very lost indeed. I have seen it in several of my co-converts who have done so for "love" and have been very unhappy, specially after having children and remembering about celebrations like Christmas or Eid. I do also remenber my Childhood and all these festivities and it makes me smile because yes, it was nice ,but it is in my past and I do not miss it ( a bit like remembering someone you used to know and have then gone different ways. You do not hate them, you just chose different passes but can still remember them fondly)LOL

littleducks · 31/10/2008 07:53

and people wonder why lisa didnt want to make a big deal about her religion in this thread? great demonstration of being inclusive and respecting other faiths cote!

for the op, it doesnt have to be all or nothing but i agree with bridget you should consult a scholar who you follow

a meal and meeting your family isnt generally a problem as maintaining good relations with your family is important

however Christmas can cause issues, (isnt it the mass so the 'rites/sacrifice' of Christ)

we find the amount of alcohol about the biggest issue tbh

CoteDAzur · 31/10/2008 08:10

I am equidistant to all religions, littleducks.

It is not disrespectful to point out that JW is indeed one of the more strict and fundamentalist denominations of Christianity. And that is relevant to this thread, as it puts her initial post into perspective. Personally, I also think she deliberately concealed her JW beliefs until asked directly, because she knew all of the above.

If you disagree, please state why.

littleducks · 31/10/2008 08:18

'member of an apocalyptic fringe sect who would let her children die rather than allow them to have blood transfusions. '

'strict and fundamentalist denominations of Christianity'

i think anyone can see that one statement is far more emotive and less respectful than the other

I dont think that lisad123 has deliberatetly concealed her faith, in fact in the past she has always been pretty open about it and she is an established poster

lissielouisscaredofthedark · 31/10/2008 08:21

actually, lisa has never hidden her religion. she is very open on here about her JW beliefs and always has been. i really dont see what her religion has to do with the price of fish.

lissielouisscaredofthedark · 31/10/2008 08:22

xpost

CoteDAzur · 31/10/2008 08:26

Look, you think what you want to. I have no emotions whatsoever re religion, which is probably why I never believed in any of it.

JW is an apocalyptic sect whose members refuse blood transfusions even when that means certain death.

If you believe that is incorrect, explain why you think so. Otherwise, move on.

CoteDAzur · 31/10/2008 08:27

"Here" as in MN in general?

Because "here" as in on this thread, she has been very circumspect until asked point blank.

lissielouisscaredofthedark · 31/10/2008 08:30

actually hospitals have machines which are bought by JW groups so that their own blood can be "recycled" this means that they keep within the guidelines of their faith and their lives are not at risk as much. they do not refuse blood transfusions, they refuse other peoples blood. big difference.

lisad123 · 31/10/2008 09:19

thank you ladies that know me. Yes I am a JW and no I didnt mention it as I knew it would end up becoming about me and my choices rather than those of the OP. I was mearly stating a fact that I wouldnt go, but have a muslim friend that does.
The blood issue is always going to be the first thing people think about when you mention a JW, I know that. And yes lissie your right we have 2 recycling machines in our local hospital which we can use, but should add anyone can use. Also Im pretty sure you all know the hospitals wouldnt let a child die and always go over a JWs head and get a court order to force them to have it. As an adult its your choice, and if you truely looked at all the risks of having blood via not, you'd see its not always the best choice.
And yes, not against blood, just someone else's.

lisad123 · 31/10/2008 09:30

and no dont agree its a sect cote

needmorecoffee · 31/10/2008 09:51

Christmas is now such a secular holiday I don't see any problem with it. DH is athiest, I'm muslim and we give small presents to the kids, cover everything in tinsel and have a tree.
There's no religion in it for us. Its family time.
Only time is makes me grumpy is we can't get any respite help with dd.

lisad123 · 31/10/2008 09:54

needmorecoffee, sounds fun
Why cant you get respite over christmas? surely thats the most stressful time for some families.

needmorecoffee · 31/10/2008 09:56

cos its Xmas. No-one wants to work. So it doesn't get to be a 'holiday' for us. bah humbug etc
It does annoy me slightly that the entire country appears to close down to 2 weeks!