To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

[Reallytired]

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

SMB

My first childbirth was terrific thanks to Mr Epidural's marvellous invention. I wanted to write him a thank you letter. I felt like a star boxer in the ring with my team of supporters as I pushed for an hour or so. I could partially support my bodyweight with my legs so didn't find the epidural disabling at all. Thanks to the epidural I had lots of energy and wasn't too tired afterwards. But I had refused pethidine at all costs.

If you have a good midwife (I was very lucky - senior midwife at the beginning of her shift) and a straightforward delivery, then it's their job to work out what makes you tick psychologically so then they know what will help you relax and work well with them.

I was distressed to see an nct publication (from 2002) that simply stated "epidurals numb you from the waist down". This was a simple lie. The NCT has done good work but this was unacceptably misleading, I felt.

Second time round, I was given a higher dose of epidural than I would in retrospect have liked. The birth was almost too easy. Neither DH nor I had enough adrenaline going to help us forget about work, etc, and focus on our new life as a foursome. Odd but that's how it was for me. Other people are no doubt wishing that had been their biggest problem in childbirth....

That's a really good point - the pain of childbirth and the overwhelmingness of it all helps you to accept that this is a big deal and your life should change, never thought of it like that!

Yes, knitting and baking more my style than unspeakable violence ! if a client wanted an epidural, it;s not my job to talk her out of it, but to make sure she knows the pros and cons before she is in labour ! and then to support her unconditionally in whatever choices she makes and empower her to feel confident in her choices

it is not just some aspects of medicalisation i don;t partic. agree with, but for example, i find freebirthing especially when done with no ante natal care, really quite frightening and not something i would be comfortable with, the pendulum can swing too far, both ways

It's great to hear all these different experiences but we have to be careful not to get caught up in 'I had a great / awful birth experience' anecdotes, and look at the bigger picture.

I don't for a second think anyone thinks epidurals are a 'bad' thing. The most important point to make, for me, is that women should be well informed about the pros and cons of all pain relief and other intervention in childbirth.

I'm always shocked when people say they were told at ante-natal classes not to go for pain relief. I know that the NCT are totally pro normalising birth and trying to move away from the (fairly recent, in the scheme of things) idea that birth is something that women can't do without lots of help from doctors and drugs. I don't think it is NCT policy at all to advise women not to have an epidural. I would hope that any good antenatal teacher would simply inform women about the different choices and the possible benefits and downsides to each. (I say 'possible because it is pretty obvious just from this thread, but also from every bit of research I have ever done on the subject, that women react very differently to different drugs...)

I'm not anti epidural. I don't know if I will have one or not with my next (imminently expected!) baby - but I'm glad I have researched the issue fully and feel confident and able to assert myself in the face of often very strong pressure from HPs to do what is 'hospital policy' or what has become the norm, without questioning it. That's all I personally for other women, too.

Well said MrsM
Mt AN classes (NHS, not NCT) did exactly that, although they were careful to emphasise all the options for pain relief - we all talked about the medicalised ones such as G&A, pethidine etc but they brought up water, keeping active, and yes the breathing I keep laughing at which was very useful

hear hear MrsM - you've summed it up admirably!
It's the fact that it almost becomes normalised to think that all sorts of medical interventions are necessary which is the danger.
The csection rate in the UK, particularly some hospitals are frighteningly high. And mention has already been made of some countries where epidural rate is as high as 90%. It's either epidural or nothing. I've been shocked lately by how many women I know assume that giving birth is something they can't do unless they are drugged up to the eyeballs and attached to monitors.

"i assumed SD would be reason for instant transfer!"

There simply wouldn't be time. You have to resolve it within a few minutes or the consequences are very dire for the baby.

If you were at special risk of SD (for instance previous SD that had been hard to resolve, or v.large baby) you'd be advised to have your baby in hospital. As I was (I was carrying a big baby). I had to employ an independent midwife as the community team didn't want to deliver my baby at home.

"That's a really good point - the pain of childbirth and the overwhelmingness of it all helps you to accept that this is a big deal and your life should change"

so agree with this. Childbirth is a rite of passage. It's women's equivalent of having to go out into the bundu and spear a lion. Once you've done that - you can do anything!

Re: the point someone else made about coping with a newborn after c-section..... honestly - that's very true. I haven't had a c-section but have had minor keyhole surgery and was in excruciating pain for quite a while afterwards. Can't imagine caring for a newborn and establishing breastfeeding after a much bigger op - so, so tough.

"I'm always shocked when people say they were told at ante-natal classes not to go for pain relief"

I don't think people are told that. I think that's just the interpretation some people put on the teacher's words.

People sometimes attend AN classes having set their hearts on having a highly medicated labour because they're very frightened. It's very upsetting for those people sometimes to be confronted with a lot of information on the risks of epidurals and pethidine.

Same with bf/af. Some people experience hearing information about the drawbacks of a/f for babies as a personal attack on their morals or their love for their child.

And actually it's easier to translate information into 'advice or 'direction' in some ways because then it's easier to disregard - after all, nobody should be telling you what you should or shouldn't do with your own body and your own baby.

I agree with the OP aboput 'competitive birthing' - I wish people who have a 'perfect' unmedicined birth would just count their lucky stars and put it down to luck - which is what it is down to most often.

I do hate it when they try to attribute it to some rare inner strengh or superpower in dealing with pain, which is a way of tacitly saying those who have pain relief are not quite so special as them. They will object to this and indeed it may not have passed through their minds that this is what they are doing, but it is. I can also see why they would want to do it, they feel good and are very proud of themselves and want to bragg a bit.

have had a natural birth...not my choice, just no time..also had 2 epidurals...they we're brilliant...i can't handle pain..if i'd had to have a baby with no pain relief..i would have stopped at one.

People experience different levels of pain due to their physiology DP, so don't put yourself down so

you know MT..ive always felt so useless because i couldn't handle natural births..when i was having ds2 i would have gladly died to be put me out of the pain...i admire women that can have babies with no pain relief...and almost enjoy it.

i also had no time for any sort of pain relief and G&A made me vomit horribly - dry heaves.

it was the worst experience of my life.

I wonder how quick he'll be this time Expat!

If he ever decides to come out.

I'm going down the diamorphine route first.

yep..worst experience of my life too.

"I wish people who have a 'perfect' unmedicined birth would just count their lucky stars and put it down to luck - which is what it is down to most often"

Why do you feel the need to judge people's births in this way? An unmedicated birth is NOT the same as a 'perfect' birth. I had an unmedicated labour that was long and hard. I had another unmedicated labour that ended in a shoulder dystocia. I wouldn't use the word 'perfect' to describe either of them. On the other hand I did come out of both births feeling happy with the way the births had gone, and felt as though both I and my caregivers had done their best to insure a healthy birth.

"I do hate it when they try to attribute it to some rare inner strengh or superpower in dealing with pain"

Why do you hate it? Because you can't bear the idea of someone feeling proud of the way they coped with their birth? Why? Are we not allowed to feel good about coping well with a really tough, challenging situation?

"which is a way of tacitly saying those who have pain relief are not quite so special as them."

Sorry, but it's not. You feel judged. It doesn't logically follow that someone's judging you.

"They will object to this and indeed it may not have passed through their minds that this is what they are doing, but it is."

Why - because you say so?

Sorry - you'll have to come up with something better than that.

it is really horrible that women are not allowed to be proud and in fact , are vilified for being smug/bitchy/condescending etc about a positive birth , whether it be unmedicated or not.....

their experiences are just as valid as those who have had a traumatic experience

being proud of yourself does not mean you thikn any less of anyone else by default

i think there is a lot of projection going on here!

maybe we all need a debrief after birth - a safe space to talk about our experiences, express our pride or sadness or whatever to someone who will understand. My dh always said 'why does it matter? DD is healthy and happy' which is true, but not quite correct.

childbirth was the biggest thing that I had done/that happened to me for a LONG time - talking about it helped to put it into perspective and move on from it.

i agree chibi. happy or sad it is a life changing experience, in so many ways.. physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually etc it affects your relationship with your partner, your own parents and it has a massive impact, whihc i think is often under estimated

of course it matters that the baby is safe and sound, but it also matters that the mother is ok too

I'm proud of the fact I had my son with no pain relief. I don't think that makes me better than anyone else though. Surely it's possible to be proud of your own achievements without it being seen as a criticism of others. I was lucky enough to only be in any real pain for 3 hours whereas my sister attempted a home birth & ended up having an emergency c-section 40 odd hours later. Obviously she needed pain relief. We're all different & one of the reasons I'm so proud of myself is because I've always been a total baby & expected to be screaming for drugs whilst whining about the fact they might make me sick within seconds (terrified of being sick, was more scared of the thought of morning sickness than giving birth)

Fabsmum, you have taken the complete wrong end of the stick - if you don't describe your unmedicinised birthinhg as 'perfect', then I am obvioulsy not talking about you

But who are these awful women boring everyone senseless with tales of their 'perfect' births?@MT

I don't know any.

i have also never met any of these women either

if anything, i find women tend to downplay their birth if it went well